Childhood traits persist in adulthood

[Hannahpops4]

Inspired by another thread about a badly behaved toddler terrorising the OP’s child.

As a fifty year old, I’ve seen plenty of my friend’s kids, and kids in my extended family, grow up. I have an observation that has left me wondering if I’m being unreasonable.

I’ve noticed (purely anecdotal and from a relatively small sample!), that kids who excessively and repeatedly behave badly towards others - with nasty, spiteful, jealous, bullying behaviours, tend to remain nasty as adults.

I can think of two kids (now adults) who were particularly nasty to other kids throughout their childhood, even as toddlers. They are now arseholes. I’m not talking about naughty or boisterous kids, that’s different. I’m talking about really underhanded, sly, manipulative behaviour. Both kids were adept at lying and getting other kids into trouble, hitting other kids and generally being mean and selfish, deliberately causing trouble and enjoying the fallout.

I know all kids act up and none are perfect but most kids show kindness and compassion to others as well. Most of them learn how to interact with others and share, take turns etc.

Perhaps my perception of the two people I’m referring to is slightly skewed because of their behaviour as children, but I’ve spoken to others who think they’re arseholes as well. Both of them brought up well and their siblings are generally very nice.

I recognise all kids can be horrible at times (including my own!) but am I way off the mark with my observation?

I’ve noticed (purely anecdotal and from a relatively small sample!), that kids who excessively and repeatedly behave badly towards others - with nasty, spiteful, jealous, bullying behaviours, tend to remain nasty as adults.
I can think of two kids (now adults) who were particularly nasty to other kids throughout their childhood, even as toddlers. They are now arseholes. I’m not talking about naughty or boisterous kids, that’s different. I’m talking about really underhanded, sly, manipulative behaviour. Both kids were adept at lying and getting other kids into trouble, hitting other kids and generally being mean and selfish, deliberately causing trouble and enjoying the fallout.

I have to be honest and say that this is my experience too - although obviously, like you, I only have a really small sample to draw from.

As you say, it's not the same with kids who are just naughty or rowdy or argumentative. I was at primary school with an absolute livewire of a lad who was always in trouble, and he is now a lovely bloke, a great dad, very kind, and has a very successful, people-orientated career that he seems to excel at. It's outright nasty, sadistic, spiteful, manipulative behaviour that I've seen in people as children that's continued to adulthood. I can think of two examples, one a girl and one a boy.

YANBU.

Exactly that 10HailMarys
I suppose it must be true to a certain extent. Psychopaths apparently demonstrate deviant behaviours as kids (torturing animals etc) so I suppose it must be the same for those who are just plain nasty as well.

Kids can be ‘naughty’ but likeable. The live wire ones can definitely be the most fun (if not exhausting!)

I think in some cases, children never get the chance to ‘grow out of’ really sneaky, nasty behaviour because the nature of that behaviour means that the adults around them failed to recognise it or correct it in any way.

I‘m thinking about the way my (STBX)H describes how he was as a child and how it relates to some of his most problematic behaviour as an adult. He talks of himself as having always been ‘underestimated’. He was small (still is) and extremely good at playing innocent. He tells stories of how he never got into trouble because the adults always blamed the other kids for things he did.

As an adult he’s never grown out of that. He’s excellent at playing the poor, innocent, confused victim despite having done some properly calculated, nasty things. Maybe, if someone had challenged this as a child, he might have learned to behave in nicer ways.

SoggyPaper - your stbx sounds like he has a few dark traits there - the bit about him feeling as though he was underestimated is very telling! It suggests he thought he could outsmart the people around him.

But do you think that sinister behaviour can be corrected by parents? I wonder if it’s innate in some people. I wonder whether any attempts to correct it may make the child even more sneaky and better at hiding it. Can you mould a child into developing a conscience?

Maybe for some kids it can be a survival thing, or a defence mechanism - I mean for kids who’ve had a tough childhood, it might be their way of coping with neglect or abuse. Or it might just be that they never learnt empathy because they were never shown love.

But for some kids, I think it’s just in them from the outset.

Well I suppose the adults who are nasty tossers had to come from somewhere, and it's highly unlikely they were sweetness and light as youngsters and then radically changed for the worse as they aged, so yep, nasty selfish difficult destructive aggressive adults would most likely have once had the same characteristics in childhood!

I’ve only ever know one really sly, nasty child. Even his own mother was very worried about him when he was very small. He now works for the Tory party so I guess you must be right (he’s an adult now just to clarify).

One of my sisters is exactly as you describe - she got away with shit I never would have, for unknown reasons.

As a result, I see her as barely functional adult. She is just an overgrown toddler. Everything has to be handed to her or done for her, she has a sense of entitlement as wide as the fucking equator and is an absolute horror of a human being.

It’s embarrassing.

I‘m thinking about the way my (STBX)H describes how he was as a child and how it relates to some of his most problematic behaviour as an adult. He talks of himself as having always been ‘underestimated’. He was small (still is) and extremely good at playing innocent. He tells stories of how he never got into trouble because the adults always blamed the other kids for things he did.

This sounds exactly like my ex and his childhood. He told me a lot of his childhood and how he would get out of trouble because he was small (and he still is small), every one protected him. His siblings and cousins would be the ones that got pulled up on whatever was going on. And he still acts the same way as an adult, never owned up to anything he did wrong. Placed the blame on others every chance he could get.

I tend to agree, OP - for both good and bad traits. Barring extreme circumstances people remain the person that they always were.

I agree op.

I always find it weird how people think human beings change throughout their lifetime, whereas I find people remain relentlessly themselves.

My three kids were born nice people and I thank my lucky stars for that.

My Mum is horrible and I think she has been since day one.

I agree. Only one child I have come across was consistently cruel and mean to siblings. He was an awful teen (often made younger female teachers cry) last heard of being a drug dealer. His family (who were lovely and tried their best) emigrated and left him behind. His behaviour was in a different league to your average stroppy / mischievous kid.

I agree, people don't change their personality traits that much as they age. Also, as I told my daughter when she was young, she shouldn't assume all adults know better than her. Thick kids don't suddenly become intelligent or wise adults.

It possibly depends on your perspective… my family have disowned me because they think I’m too difficult, I think they’re narcissistic. Who knows what the truth is?

But in my view, my sister was a bully as a child, and still is.

I do think that as we age, our personalities show through in our faces. Some people look selfish, others have a happy, open, demeanour.

I don’t think kids aren’t born devious, malicious, spiteful, manipulative or any of these other negative traits listed. They are complex facets of a developed personality. I do however think that some kids are born with temperaments that predispose them to negative personalities in later life, depending on their life experience. There will be a lot of kids with the building blocks to be ‘unpleasant’ who turn out to be wonderful adults and vice versa.

i think I was brought up believing in nurture over nature but my experience is that an awful lot of who you are is there from the beginning and born into you.

@5zeds
i agree

This is what I mean by traits that the adults around them failed to recognise or failed to intervene over. The ‘naughty’ and ‘boisterous’ kids usually spend their childhoods being told off or facing consequences. While some others learn that they can get away with sneaky behaviour (and get others into trouble instead) so it becomes more ingrained in their behaviour. They might have learned differently if the people around them had treated them differently.

I agree. I think some are just born evil. Yes even children can be evil and become evil adults.

Disagree that’s it’s all nurture. The example I gave the family were lovely - rather posh creative slightly hippy types very loving to their children but they tried to be firm too. Their eldest was not their fault. He was born like that.

Very thought provoking thread,op. I don't think YABU, and I don't think you're way off the mark.
I was a teacher for over 20 years and experienced many children who, god forgive me, were just plain vile.
It's very complex, though. Some of these children, as a pp said, experienced such neglect from rubbish parents, that it was probably a defence mechanism. So sad. Others weren't helped by parents who could neither see nor accept their children were on the wrong path, so basically ( not in all cases), a life of crime beckoned.

YANBU.

My brother was prized dickhead as a child (always the smart arse, no respect and attention seeker) to the people around him, and he still is a wanker as an adult, just on a bigger scale as he screwed so many people over in his life, including our own parents and my other two brothers. NC now.

I agree. My dad proudly tells stories about hurting other children and being quite horrible. Laughing about awkward children from his childhood. Thinks it normal childhood stuff. He is now n awful adult

YANBU
Psychopathy runs in my family so this is some thing I've had to think about.

If you get a kid like that your best efforts as a Mum might lead to them being an asshole to their family and friends, but not a criminal. And that should be counted as a success.

There's a neurologist who studied the brains of psychopaths and discovered that his own brain scan looks the same. He credits his parents love for steering him away from serious wrongdoing. But his family were not surprised by the scan and said it "explains a lot" so I would guess he is horrible in smaller ways.

On all those murder programmes 95% of them have neighbours, extended family who say how lovely the murderer was as a kid & how there wasn't any signs!