Weaning & night wakes, WIBU

[MolliciousIntent]

Situation a friend is going through and wants a perspective on, gonna just give the cliff notes here - she wants to wean her toddler who wakes a lot through the night. Standard advice is, let your DH deal with it. Toddler is incredibly clingy to mum and melts down when she doesn't instantly BF.

she's a SAHM but from birth her DH has been really involved, he runs his own business and took 6m SPL and since then works from home v flexibly, he's around a great deal and from what I've seen and what she's told me, is very hands on and does his fair share of the load around the home and with the kid. The issue they're having is, from the beginning, the DH wanted her to let him settle the baby for some naps, and do some bedtimes, himself. He wanted to be able to be a part of some of those moments. She insisted on feeding to sleep for every single sleep, as she'd read it was the biological norm. Her DH felt very pushed out by this, he wasn't asking her to stop BF, just asking that he have a chance to cuddle/rock/whatever his baby to sleep a couple of times a week. She flat refused. Now fast forward about 18m and the toddler is completely reliant on boob to sleep and she's on her knees. Her DH is very resentful of the fact that he is now expected to step up and spend a week dealing with massively distressed, screaming child who just wants him to go away for all naps, bedtimes and night wakes, when he'd previously begged to be allowed to establish his own settling routine with the baby and been refused. He's going to do it, obviously, but he's pretty upset about it and wants his wife to acknowledge that the whole situation has been pretty unfair on him. She feels like it was her right to BF for every single sleep and that it's not on for him to hold that against her now she wants to stop. Who's in the wrong here?

Neither are in the wrong. It’s just what happened.
While breastfeeding, when the baby cries it does play havoc on your emotions because of the hormones. It just makes you want to feed the baby.

Though don’t listen to me. I’m in exactly the same position as your friend but with a 2.5yr old toddler! I fed the baby to sleep because it was for an easy life (at the time). It meant my hard working husband could rest, baby would be happy and siblings wouldn’t get woken up. Do I wish I delegated more to my husband? Yep in hindsight. But it is what it is. I know she’ll grow out of this stage eventually.

I think the issue is that the husband really really wanted to be involved in sleep right from the beginning, and felt quite hurt that he was literally never allowed to even attempt a bedtime. Which I do understand. It means that now that he's expected to do the miserable job of handling the night weaning, he feels particularly resentful because to his mind if she'd let him learn how to settle the baby from the beginning, they more than likely wouldn't be having such a miserable time of it now. He wants her to acknowledge that, and she won't, which is causing the friction.

She feels like it was her right to BF for every single sleep

I think viewing it as her "right", rather than just something she wanted to do, that also worked well for the baby, is odd.

I can see why her husband is frustrated, but if feeding to sleep worked, I can completely see why she wanted to just do that, rather than change the routine around on some days. When you just want a small baby to sleep and you know feeding will work, you don't want someone else trying (and potentially it not working and then you being handed an overtired and upset baby to feed). That's how I felt anyway.

When you just want a small baby to sleep and you know feeding will work, you don't want someone else trying (and potentially it not working and then you being handed an overtired and upset baby to feed). That's how I felt anyway.

This is how I felt too. The husband wanting to help may have actually been more of a hindrance. He could have helped in other ways, ‘doing’ bedtime consists of a lot more than putting the baby to sleep. Could have he not bathed the baby and do stories etc before mum breastfed baby? Dads wants don’t trump baby’s needs. My baby wouldn’t ever take milk from a bottle, is your friend’s baby the same. Breastfeeding isn’t just about getting milk into the baby, it’s their comfort too. The dad could have caused more stress for the child and then the poor mum would have then been handed back a distressed baby.

Yeah the use of "right" is what is sitting strangely with me too.

I get that about the settling, but I think it was massively OTT to literally never let him even try. And I can see why he would feel that, having put them in this situation where the baby has genuinely never fallen asleep with dad, that she should be the one to suck up the stress of night weaning. I think his exact words were "you created this problem and now you want to make it my problem to fix it" which is pretty harsh, but maybe he has a point?

FWIW from the beginning I made sure that my DH did at least a couple of bedtimes/naptimes a week, even though I fed to sleep for the rest of them, so that they got used to each other, so I do find my friend's stance a bit odd. It worked really well and I think I only had to step in a handful of times when teething or poorly.

"he feels particularly resentful because to his mind if she'd let him learn how to settle the baby from the beginning, they more than likely wouldn't be having such a miserable time of it now"

What the DH was suggesting was a form of sleep training. That couldn't have been done before six months. Some babies don't settle without a feed. Did they use a dummy? My GC wouldn't settle without suckling. The DH can't say for sure that he would have been able to settle to sleep. So his wife shouldn't have to admit that she was wrong. It's around twelve months old that a lot of people start to drop the night feeds, so he's only missed six months. She could compromise and say that she should have perhaps started at one year old, but why stress a baby if you don't have to? I'd always continue bf over winter, it's protective. The need to be right kills a relationship. Is he going to blame his wife for every decision that doesn't produce a perfect child? He needs to get passed this.

Plus saying the mum felt it was her right to breastfeed the baby to sleep is such a bazaar attitude to have. No woman wants to sit and breast feed a baby to sleep every single night. I know I would have rather been having a nice hot bath or watching TV. But I did it FOR the baby. You’re the dad, aren’t you? As I can’t see any woman claiming another woman feels it’s her right to breastfeed a baby to sleep! It’s like saying it’s my right to walk the dog. My right to clean the toilet…. Breastfeeding is a bloody chore. The woman should be commended to getting to 15 months and if daddy was so bothered about not being part of putting a baby to bed, he can step up now can’t he. Because the likelihood is that baby would have preferred mum’s boobs just as much then as now and either way the dad would have had a screaming child to contend with. Now he’s got it.

sorry, cross post, I see from your update that you’re not the dad. Apologies.

She is.

And tbh if I was him I'd be tempted to tell her she needs to sort it herself

I'd she's thar fussed by the biological norm (load of pish) she should be letting the kid self wean anyway

No, I'm not the dad, I'm a friend to both of them, and she was the one who used the phrase "it was my right" to me.

And I think your personal experience of breastfeeding is colouring your opinion here - I know a lot of women don't enjoy it but many do, myself and my friend among them. She didn't see it as a chore.

@Ponoka7 I don't think Dad cuddling a baby to sleep can be seen as sleep training by any stretch! Do you think that pushing a baby in a pram or a sling to get them to nap is sleep training? It's the same thing to my mind.

"I think his exact words were "you created this problem and now you want to make it my problem to fix it""

He needs to read up on what resentment does to a sex life. As well as what not having your partner's back and being petty does to a whole relationship. Either way at some point his sleep was going to be disrupted. It's just been delayed. Did he get up when she did, or has he had a good amount of sleep for the last eighteen months?

Your friend was unreasonable imo. Did she not look forward and see this issue coming.

I made sure my partner did his fair share of bedtikes for this exact reason, and i think for her to have refused to let him ever put his child to bed is awful, why did ahe get to override him for 18 months. If i was him i would be feeling resentful too

@MolliciousIntent withdrawing bf and night feeds so little (the DH wanted to do that from birth) is a form of training. It might never have worked.

Of course it’s a chore waking up every single night throughout the night, to breastfeed a baby back to sleep! No matter how much you love breastfeeding (which I do, so no personal experience colouring my judgement) it’s still a chore, hence why your friend is now “on her knees” and exhausted.

I get dad‘a feelings, he wasn’t good enough then but is now blah blah, but why is he so intent on wanting acknowledgement? She did what she thought was right for her baby (you said previously that she was informed this was the biological norm). I just don’t understand why he feels he needs this acknowledgment

He never asked her to not feed the baby, he wanted her to feed the baby and then let him do the settling to sleep. He never suggested she withdraw BF or not feed through the night, she freely admits all of this. And he did all the bathtimes etc from the beginning.

They sleep in the same room with the baby, so every time she's woken, he's woken too.

@Aussiegirl123456 I think he wants acknowledgement because she's now expecting him to do a fucking miserable job that might not have been necessary had she listened to him to start with. Replace BF with anything else in this scenario and you'd probably expect someone to say "I'm sorry, I may have made the wrong call here, and I know it upset you a lot. I'd really appreciate your help to fix it now." Rather than doubling down.

He never asked her to not feed the baby, he wanted her to feed the baby and then let him do the settling to sleep.

But how would that work if the baby was feeding to sleep? I couldn't have prevented DD from falling asleep feeding even if I'd wanted to, I'd have had to actively wake her back up if DH was asking to do the settling to sleep. So how could he have settled an already sleeping baby to sleep?

Unless she literally would not let him ever lift the sleeping baby into the cot, and that's what he wanted to do?

Ok. Well it also might not have worked, so a bit of a non issue. I just don’t get it. He’s assuming that he would have been able to settle the baby. He may have, he may not have. He may have had to hand a very distressed newborn back to mum for her to deal with. It’s all what if and what might have happened. My kid’s might have been millionaires if I invested their pocket money instead of letting them buy toys. Who knows! She did what she thought was right, why apologise for that? Seems he’s so caught up in his own needs to be acknowledged hey!

Well you keep a baby awake during the first part of the feed, don't you, to make sure they're taking a full feed before they drop off? Then when they've had a good meal you stop with the feet tickling or whatever and let them suckle to sleep. I think he wanted her to feed the baby and then hand over to him for the last sleepy part. That's what my DH and I always did anyway.

I think he wouldn't feel the need to be acknowledged if she wasn't now expecting him to do all the hard work of weaning. If she was willing to deal with the weaning herself, I think he'd have kept quiet.

I think the husband is in the right here, but it really is pointless talking about who is right and who is wrong at this stage. It is what it is, and they need to work out how to fix it. If they have another child, hopefully she will learn from this.

Had another chat with my friend about this today - they tried her DH doing all the wakes/settling but the toddler just screamed and she couldn't take it so went in and fed after about 5min each time. So now she's exhausted and stressed and resentful that her DH couldn't fix it and desperate to stop BF and apparently her DH is massively irritated that she wouldn't "give him a proper chance" to settle the baby. I honestly don't know what to suggest here!

She sleeps on the other side of the house with ear plugs in?

She needs to give her husband a lot longer than 5 minutes to figure things out.