Nothing will change while parents are so sexist

[12Thorns]

Just in the last half hour on MN I’ve read posts from a pregnant mother wanting to know if her ‘gender scan’ is likely to be correct before she goes shopping for her newborn, and a mother arguing 7 boys should be allowed to play football at break times when they are excluding a boy with ADHD, and not half a thought for the girls being not only excluded from the game, but also from the space the game is played in, and we all know football takes up most of the playing space available

what hope is there for any sort of equality when such attitudes are so deeply ingrained and passed on to babies and children?

Why not have pink wearing CEOs and STEM researchers though (male or female)?

@whenwillthemadnessend - I thought single sex girls schools had a better track record for encouraging stem? I went to a single sex girls school and I thought it was good - sport was encouraged. But probably I would want my kids to go to mixed school as I hadn’t had much interaction with boys until uni!

For sport - I would recommend trying for defence positions as you are not as dependent on people passing to you. But I would agree that the coaches sound like they are not addressing the bullying and the parents that encourage kids in this behaviour are idiots.

Stereotypes start depressingly young. I have girls (now in their twenties). When they were babies/toddlers, they had a couple of dresses for special occasions, but I dressed them in mainly in leggings, trousers, dungarees and shorts of various colours.

Around her second birthday, my older daughter moved up from the toddler room at nursery to a 'class' of 2-3 year olds. Within a couple of days she told me that she wanted to wear a skirt because she was a girl and girls wore skirts.

@Fifthtimelucky what is inherently wrong with girls wearing dresses though, why is it depressing that a child would want to wear a dress? Why should they only be for special occasions?

@Fifthtimelucky - i knew a girl who was into dinos as well as dresses etc. but then she went to playgroup and was just into princesses and Elsa - influenced by peer group.

we home Ed. It is quite interesting - the older DS is pretty gender equal - will watch my little pony as well as action stuff. The younger thinks ‘boys are better than girls’. Me and DH don’t really conform to many sex stereotypes, the activities they do like swimming are not particularly stereotyped. Maybe the younger one was exposed to more tv??

@fyn

Why don't boys want to wear them?

Ds was made fun of at nursery for liking purple because it's a girls colour

🙄

The only issue is that people like you continue to bring up issues where there aren't any. Someone wants to know if a gender scan is correct? So what?! We all know what she means and, in reality, the baby's sex will be the baby's gender.

Why does everything have to involve everyone? It really doesn't matter that girls and boys can't do the same things. Every time I come on here there's a new post trying to ban males from female areas. You can't have it both ways.

The vast majority of young boys aren’t going to want to wear dresses and “girly”shoes etc, for the simple reason that that clothing is totally unpractical for running about in the playground and kicking a football around. Similarly, the vast majority of young boys of 4/5/6 aren’t going to want to spend hours after school playing dress up with dolls etc - because it’s boring AF. The onus of change, if there is one, is on the parents of girls to let their kids be inquisitive and curious kids, rather than dressing up as mini Kim Kardashians/Kate Middletons. Little boys are for the most part doing just fine, at least until the female centric education system starts to grind the life out of some of them.

@Hallyup89

It really doesn't matter that girls and boys can't do the same things

Wtf?

You tell your kids that it doesn't matter that girls are treated difficult boys? Told they can't do what boys can?

Fuck me

Totally agree op.

I thought I was vaguely progressive but essentially normal allowing my toddler boy to wear his favourite colours and keep his hair at his request. Primary school was a shock to me. A sea of mini princesses and footballers.

And yes the girls were being excluded from the football, along with boys who didn't like it. This stuff starts so young. The boys outright refused to be around the girls at all. Small children soak up attitudes they are exposed to at home or through TV and games.

Luckily the school were responsive and brought in a number of initiatives to integrate the boys with the girls and to limit the amount of time the small outside space was hogged by football.

The OP’s point is pretty well proven by the posters here queuing up to

• defend the status quo


• deny that there’s an issue


• conflate believing in equal opportunities with gender ideology


• conflate believing in the importance of female spaces with sexism

Considering that this is supposed to be a bastion of feminism, it’s quite depressing.

At 13 DS has a girl on his football team. She is great and popular, and an important part of the team.
At primary school one of his best friends was a girl who played football with him every lunchtime - she plays for a girls team.
I think football is great, and in my children's experience inclusive and good for fitness, and should be encouraged in school.

Absolutely agree with a PP about the impracticality of dresses for little girls wanting to play, climb trees, etc. I dressed my two DDs in leggings, jeans or shorts. They each had one “party frock” for special occasions, but hated them.
Their toys were almost completely gender free, and largely educational. My DDs are now adults, one with a maths degree working as a senior risk analyst, and the other with a business degree working as a marketing manager. I like to think their upbringing helped give them the confidence to pursue their careers, and to choose loving, supportive, non sexist boyfriends.

It's fine to be different ..... They are different,

What's not fine is discrimination towards sexes or anything else for that matter.

@LoobyDop

i think many people are totally for feminism - and even in favour of some top down reforms/“interference” (for example, I would consider supporting campaigns to prevent toy shops from splitting their whole stores into two halves - one blue /one pink). However I’m against full scale social engineering and the modern trend of certain feminists to prioritise outcomes over opportunity.

I would be interesting to know how many women who are howling about the "injustice of "forcing little girls to wear little girls clothing" actually spend their days wearing mens clothes?
Has it occurred to anyone that little girls might actually like wearing little girls clothes?

The stereotyped status quo is the breeding ground of gender ideology.

Kids like mine who have been allowed to be themselves are collateral damage as gender ideology teaches them (and their well meaning teachers, therapists and classmates) that they are not boys after all.

Stereotypes should absolutely be torn down. Literally the only thing that makes my kid a boy is his physiology. He can do and be and love who the fuck he likes... As long as he understands he won't be a mother and has no right to invade the very small number of spaces that need to be single sex for females.

Most women I passed this morning were wearing jeans & tshirts!

However I do agree that "gender neutral" generally ignores girly stuff altogether. When it should mean everything for everyone - including dresses/dolls /pink for boys if they want.

And I do agreed dresses are really comfy. Think a lot of the Muslim men in my neighbourhood agree too as their robes are very similar.

It’s impractical not unpractical and as for the rest of your assertions the opposite is true. Check out any nursery and you will observe boys and girls equally absorbed in family play (dolls), dress ups, sand play and outdoor play. I mean honestly, your post is breathtakingly ignorant.

Wow just wow. I think you're a prime example of what the OP is referring to. So many stereotypes in your post. I wouldn't be surprised if you're a man as your post comes across incredibly sexist.

I do think that’s why single sex schools are actually better, at least for girls. Plenty of girls run around playing football at break time in my daughters school. It’s not seen as boys thing, neither is rugby, science, digging muddy holes etc - simply because boys aren’t there.

I don’t worry so much about whether clothing is male or female. I worry about us it practical, will it restrict my movements, do I like it, is it cheap?

about 3/4 of my clothing is technically male. I am currently wearing
a woman’s blouse- I like it and it’s cool

mens shorts- cheap, and with pockets

mens sports socks- cheap

mens sports shoes - cheaper and more comfortable than women’s

wonans underwear. Long hair( low maintenance) feminine hair band ( I like it)

I agree with your statement OP but not with your examples. In fact I think they are a bit sexist. Why are typical boys activies like football so admired that you think most girls want to play? Maybe those girls (and many boys too) don't want to play that game. What's wrong with the girls doing typical girls games if that's what they freely choose? Football isn't inherently better.

Same as pp who commented that playing with dolls is "boring af" - why? Because it's associated with girls and therefore boring, not like awesome boys games. I think playing with dolls can be lots of fun, both my kids (one of each sex) love playing with dolls.

Talking about shoes, I hate the gendering in kids shoes with a passion.

boys, here you are, run and play!

girls, be careful, sloppy souls, don’t run, fragile bows, very pretty, don’t get them dirty, stay clean, stay still!

Why are you classing football as typical male activity? You realise it was a woman’s sport until the FA banned woman playing from 1921-1971?