Grandparents only seeing 1 of our children

[Poi23]

I need some neutral perspective on a situation with my in-laws.

We were always close, but my DH had a fall out with his dad around 2.5 years ago and he was really very unkind to him. He worked for him, so lost his job all whilst I was on maternity leave with newborns. He contracted other business of a similar nature to bad mouth him so they wouldn't give him a job. Some awful things were said and they’ve never been discussed and no effort has ever been made to repair things on either side. So my DH is pretty estranged from his family but we see his mum when she sees our eldest.

Since the fall out, none of them have seen the youngest children. They have maintained contact with our eldest which his mum facilitates, but it’s irregular. She tends to pick up from school and have her for tea. Sometimes once a week, but other times it can go a few months. She always drops off once the youngest are in bed.

They’ve never made an effort with them. We do invite them to all birthday gatherings, and it’s always declined. We initially continued to send gifts for the sake of our daughter being able to provide them but we have stopped this now as things have kind of settled and our eldest isn’t so close to them anyway anymore.

Just before Christmas, his mum came round and was very upset and apologised for how things had been. She was upset that the youngest didn’t know her and she seemed really sorry for everything. She said that she needed to leave her husband as he was controlling and verbally abusive to her. I am not surprised in the slightest. Her car is tracked and she is basically not allowed to our house and especially not allowed to see the youngest children. We supported her and she started to come round once a week and was getting to know them. She then ended up in a psychiatric hospital and again we would take her for meals with our eldest and was in contact quite regularly.

Once she was back home though, this all stopped and she has made it pretty clear she doesn’t wish to speak with us. Just by not really responding or engaging in any conversation. She hasn’t been round and in the last 3 months has picked our eldest up for tea twice. The last time being around 6 weeks ago i think.

She has now asked if she can have her for a sleepover on Friday night and I feel really conflicted. I am going to say yes, but I feel like this isn’t something we can maintain in the long term. It’s not fair on the youngest children who are now starting to notice when our eldest isn’t here and they will soon be starting the school nursery. I imagine she will still just want to pick the eldest up.

I’m worried that she’s vulnerable and I don’t want to upset her, but I think I need to have a conversation maybe through the great nana and just say that we don’t feel like it’s something we can continue to facilitate unless some effort is also made for the youngest children. But I also don’t want to force that if she doesn’t want to or can’t do that for whatever reason.

For now I think I need to leave things as they are but as we approach the new school year and they will all be together, I think I need to address it?

Or do others disagree?

I wouldn't allow contact. It's really damaging for all your kids.
My dc were the first grandchildren and were fawned over. As soon as their daughter had a son mine were forgotten.
I will never forget my 7 year old son asking me what he'd done to upset granny. I told him nothing and asked him why he felt that way. He replied, why doesn't she want to see me anymore?
We're now NC, best decision I ever made.

I don't understand why you and your husband have allowed this to go on for so long. She should not be seeing your eldest child without you.

Ask her outright what her beef is with the younger kids. Don't let any of your kids anywhere near their house.

She has now asked if she can have her for a sleepover on Friday night and I feel really conflicted. I am going to say yes,

FFS WHY?

DH's father is an abusive arsehole who dominates & controls his wife, & was happy to attempt to make his son destitute.

Why on earth would you send your daughter into that lion's den?

It's obvious why your MiL has backed off - her H found out about her visit, punished her for it, & forbade her from associating with her own son.
She's managed to wangle this visit, & for whatever reason - possibly because it's on his own turf, without you or DH present - he has agreed.

Do not subject your daughter to this visit.
If MiL wants to see her, she needs to visit you, or meet your somewhere neutral.
I'd be pretty keen to do that, frankly - with or without DD - because this woman clearly needs help to escape, & isn't getting it.

What are you doing facilitating this mess? Keep your eldest DC away from them. It is damaging not only to the DC who sees this woman as and when she feels like but also to the younger kids that they ignore. I really don't understand how you think this is acceptable.

Chances are she might feel she cannot cope with more than the eldest. She's clearly a very vulnerable woman.

I don’t want to be too dramatic here but you need to remember your children aren’t adults, they rely on you to keep them out of harm’s way. They can’t be compromised for the sake of politeness or reassuring an adult. Your MIL is in a dangerous situation, seriously, you may well have adjusted to FIL psychopathic behaviour but he’s dangerous. Some men who ultimately do the most violent, most drastic things will have no history of physical assault but will have a history of this kind of coercive control.

Totally agree with this.

Yes sorry OP, I think it was one thing when your younger children were small enough not to be aware, but now that they are I don't think it would be fair to carry on allowing PIL to spend time with just the oldest.

It's not like you are keeping them apart, you are inviting them to family occasions and they are declining. It's not you who has caused this issue.

No sleepovers op...
Your fil is abusive.. Your dd shouldn't be handed over to mil imo either.

100% agree with all those saying no way would I let my precious DC spend the night under the same roof as him.

You definitely need to stop the contact with only one child.

I was the second child in this-well myself and my brothers
my cousins where treated like gods and us like shit on their shoes
my grandparents on my mothers side made it clear that we where not to be bothered with but my cousins got everything
sleepovers,pets,chocolate at Easter,much better Christmas presents (ours where car boot tat-they got really expensive stuff),days out,time spent on the floor with them,treats etc
it affects you badly-it really does-what did we do that was so bad to them?
I really wish the adults in our lives had stood up to them and told them ‘it’s all,or none’ and meant it
believe me,it damages you-we should have been no contact rather than my mother pushing us forward to be rejected again and again and my aunts allowing it with their children (I’m not blaming the females but men just where not as involved as they are today)
They both died in the end and my brothers and I where not bothered while the cousins where wailing about ‘much loved grandparents’

mil needs help to leave-she may or my not but if you think your children won’t notice,then you are very much mistaken

I wonder if the gap was because FIL wouldn't allow her contact, but after three months she was on the point of leaving, so he caved in.
Not having your eldest might be the push to leave. I think that there should be more honesty with her about the abuse and you not wanting it to continue towards the children and then step back. Just make it clear that she has your full support to leave. Could you put her up?

Why would you even consider sending her to a house where you know there is abuse?

this also isn’t fair on your youngest
so no I wouldn’t let her go and I wouldn’t let her keep taking oldest.

I feel a bit overwhelmed by the response. I have been worried about ‘stopping’ contact or being controlling in any way, and after reading all of the replies I realise this is because I’m trying to keep the peace or at least not come across as a bad person.

Initially we maintained it for the sake of our daughter. As a baby, they cared for her few days a week whilst I worked and then they did have a regular day for pick up once she was at school too. She was very close to them.

The “babies” as we still call them were born in Sept 19 and were born 8 weeks early, so required some NICU stay. They did visit a few times but this stopped once we were home and my DH was pressured to get straight back to work, as he had had 4 weeks off due to the NICU stay. I know this might be reasonable but it’s the way he goes about things. He would never just say anything straight and instead just got annoyed with him and wasn’t very nice to him and you have to always guess the reason why.

The summer holidays before this they didn’t see my eldest once, which I found odd at the time and it did upset me as I wondered what we had done and as usual you are left guessing. I now think its because in early July time we had a party for my DH where we invited FIL’s sister and he said he didn’t want us to because he doesn’t like her – not that he tells his sister this and they are pleasant in person with each other. So we said well we like her and how would we uninvite her without causing tension, and so we didn’t. He then didn’t come to the party and now I look back, that’s where things changed.

I think they just haven’t bothered to see the babies as they have never had a bond with them in the first place.

The argument between the in laws that caused this estrangement was us kind of asking “why have you distanced yourself” and saying that we feel upset that they’re not around and it just exploded, and he was quite aggressive with my DH at work the next day. Screamed at him and other staff were around.

The signs have always been there. I’ve always known that the way he acts isn’t ‘normal’. As in, he plays his kids off against each other and he’s very nasty about other people but lovely to their face. He holds grudges and fuels anger and I know he’s not kind to my MIL. He uses money and power over everyone around him. Controls a lot of aspects of people’s lives – provides cars and supports them with money.

I just never wanted to hurt her. It’s not really her fault. I’ve always been quite annoyed with her for not seeing the babies and I was very hurt for a long time that they had been so happy to fall out with us as I felt quite close to my MIL and I confided in her about things and I trusted her.

I just don’t want to force it. I learnt that from the first time I said I was upset they were distant. That you can’t force someone to want to be there. So I don’t want to have to force her to be with my youngest kids. I feel really sad that they don’t want to be, and we have been through some really hard things with them with illness and they’ve still never reached out. I feel very stuck but I know I need to put a stop to it.

I really like the suggestions of making sure she knows we support her and we care for her and she’s welcome here any time.

To add to this, she lost her dad around a month ago and I know she is heartbroken. So, she could stay with her mum. She would get a lot of money in a divorce, but he would make it very difficult. Her mum would support her though whilst she goes through the process.

Her fears (from what she said around christmas) were that her other 2 children would abandon her and want to stay with him and his money and they all call her crazy and say she's an alcoholic and the FIL has very much filled their heads with the idea that it is her with the problem. To me, she has been abused for so long that she just doesn't have the strength to face up to the backlash that I know she would get. They can be very nasty. I lost a baby and they said some awful things over text to me about that. The siblings that is.

I have voted YABU as I don't think ANY of your DC should be anywhere near FIL. MIL should not be taking any of them to her house and I wouldn't allow any contact that you cannot supervise.

You need to do what is right for your DC.

Put your children first.

I can understand why your first instinct is to question if you should stop the relationship between your child and her GM. You accept that she is not in control of how the relationship develops. You need to accept that GF will be exerting control through GM.

Gf is forcing the artificial split in your family. What is happening the younger children are being punished for being their fathers children who were very vulnerable when GF and DH fell out. GF was willing to reject the younger children because he could pretend that your older child did not come with you and DH.

I can't see how your older child would benefit long term by the relationship in its current format. She is being taught by example that your DH can be abused and ignored that your other children can be ignored by GF and that GM can be abused in her relationship with GF. Creating a family event meeting goes part ways to counteract GF's infulance as you as a family support GM.

I would continue to support GM seeing the the all children in a public venues, sports events and picnics etc but not allow DD go to GM house.

Hell would freeze over before I allowed my child to go there for a sleepover or even a visit for that matter. Reasons -
FiL sounds like a controlling dick
FiL doesn't like your family
MiL has recently had such poor MH that she's been hospitalised
Your DD sounds old enough to work out that her siblings are excluded
Who knows what FiL will say to her behind your back
The inequality of the situation

By all means help her to get support but do not send your DD there - please.

I voted YABU because it is crystal clear that you need to protect all your children from being exposed to these people.

As in, he plays his kids off against each other

which is exactly what he’ll do with yours if you let him.

he’s already creating a divide between them.

Jeez he sounds horrible. It sounds like the FIL should be the one in the psychiatric hospital!

Wow. There is no way I would allow my children anywhere near him or in his house . For me it's an all or nothing scenario. All grandchildren or none.

I would be supporting mil to leave him and help her create a bond with all her grandchildren. She is being abused and needs someone to reach out to her.

Hi again OP, I think the real answer here is to go completely NC with FIL - he is the real problem in this mess. But be very clear to your MIL why you're doing it - he's controlling, abusive etc - and that you need to cut HIM out of your lives, not her. Make it clear to her you care for her, support her and would love her to have a relationship with all your children. But not him. It will help her make the leap to leave.

After decades of this sort of emotional abuse, people like her find it almost impossible to disentangle their own identity, wishes and needs from the unit as a couple. By drawing clear lines, you can help her to start doing so.

And another thing, OP (sorry). I notice in your latest post you mention 'they' and 'them' a lot, eg "I was very hurt for a long time that they had been so happy to fall out with us as I felt quite close to my MIL and I confided in her about things and I trusted her."

In your own mind you need to stop thinking about your FIL and MIL acting in unison, as a unit. Most of what's happened will not be HER choice. To help her make the break, you also need to change your own mindset and the way you've framed events.