AIBU to have told DS he can ignore teacher on this one?

[OverExpectantParent]

DS is Yr6, has SN and a 1:1TA 6 lessons a week.
After reluctance to go to school, he finally said why. Yr3 teacher is ill and his TA is covering for her. He has been told he will have to go into the Yr3 classroom for his maths lesson today.

I told him he didn't have to, he could ask to do his work in the corridor or stay in his classroom. That I will back him on refusing to go into the Yr 3 classroom, but he must do his work. He's worried the Yr 3's will laugh at him and ask why he's there 🙁
AIBU to have told him that?

The issue isnt really about getting the time back etc (although I agree that is an issue in and of itself)

The issue is that the ops son is being taught by the year 6 teacher with 121 supoort, which means if the 121 support is not available (say for example it was the ta who was sick) the child reains the teachers responsibility. However in this instace the teacher clearly sees the child as soley the tas responsobility so if the a goes lsewhere the child has to. That means the child is missing both the teachers teaching and the 121 support

Besides which suely it would be better to have a child without his 121 support in a year 6 class with a qualified teacher that a year 3 class with a nonqualified teacher. The older children should be better able to work independently enabling the teacher to devote more of their time to the child, whilst a ta more used to working 1 on 1 may find controlling a classroom of younger children leaves less time to helpthe child (this is not a slight on tas)

Honestly, it makes it so difficult when a kid arrives in school saying 'my mum said that...' The teacher (or whoever is in charge) is put in a really tricky position - they don't weant to be dismissive of you but they cannot just follow whatever you decide willy-nilly.
I understand you were trying to help your child, but hopefully you can now see that as you are not the one in charge of the class, school must be allowed to make the decisions. Of course you should speak to the school to see what can be worked out.

You should have spoken to the HT.

You cannot ask a child to defy their teacher. Wasn't his place, it was yours

Can you imagine the uproar if every child who didn’t like what room they were told to go to came out with’ my mum says I don’t have to’.

chaos

you are utterly ridiculous

There’s nothing awful about that, I agree with you and op on that point.

Not wanting to be a teacher nowadays was a general observation based on this thread and the speed of some posters (not op) to jump into complaining.

I can imagine that being a teacher (likewise being in the nhs) nowadays is hugely frustrating. It’s never nice to be faced with complaints, especial when the fault lies with the system and not you personally. It massively gets you down and causes significant stress.

Obviously he won't be working 1:1 with the TA if she is needed to teach or supervise the Year 3 class.

Why do you assume OP's son will be working at Year 3 level? SEN doesn't automatically mean that a child is three years behind, indeed he need not be behind academically at all.

OP's son doesn't have to sit on his own in the corridor. He could stay in his normal classroom with the support he is supposed to have.

Year 3s may not bully this child. That can't be assumed of Year 6s, can it?

It is only one day, that should have been your response.

You do need to speak to the school to gather all the details.

My concern would be that the 1-2-1 time in his EHCP isn't made up on a different day.

In addition who is to say that TA won't be left plugging any other "one offs".

DD's school would have messaged me - to explain and to help me talk to my child about up coming changes so that I could smooth out any issues.

“He could stay in his normal classroom with the support he is supposed to have.”

And how would he do that @AmaryIlis in an emergency staffing situation if the Ta is needed elsewhere and no other staff are available?

Surely he should either do as he is told, or stay in the yr 6 room supervised by the year 6 teacher with the rest of the class? Can you think of any other options if there was no other staff available? Or would you send the whole yr 3 class home instead?

From my experience as both a 1:1 ta and a teacher, it is NEVER just one day that support is pulled from the children who need it most.

This also ignores the issue of the year 6 teacher seemingly ignoring their responsibilities towards the op’s son.

Obviously op should have contacted the school and highlighted that her ds was anxious about going to the year 3 room and discussed options instead of telling her ds to do it though.

Watermelon45 sadly, DC whose parents know the system, know what should be provided and can/will enforce their DC’s EHCP get better support. It shouldn’t be that way but it is. Complaining DC isn’t receiving the necessary, and if specified and quantified in the EHCP legally required, provision is the way to secure the necessary support for DC. Unfortunately, some schools and LAs will take liberties if breaches are left unchallenged. A complaint doesn’t need to be aggressive and you can do it politely.

I can imagine that being a teacher (likewise being in the nhs) nowadays is hugely frustrating. It’s never nice to be faced with complaints, especial when the fault lies with the system and not you personally. It massively gets you down and causes significant stress.

Yes, some parents do complain about unreasonable things but here, it seems there’s a totally valid complaint about the child not being supported or included in the class properly.

Parents can be annoying but tbh, all the teachers I know are leaving because of unreasonable workload expectations and that’s coming from elsewhere.

This isn't an unusual scenario, therefore schools should have procedures in place that don't involve breaking the law. IME teachers who can't come in will have phoned well before 8.30 - they would normally expect to be in school by then and preparing for their first class. When DSis did supply work, she could expect to get calls from the agency from 6.30 a.m. onwards. The schools put interim arrangements in place if she couldn't get there on time, e.g. putting two classes together in the hall or doing something outdoors, having a head or deputy supervising the class, or borrowing a class TA rather than an individual one.

This is not a matter of suiting a particular parent's wishes. It is a matter of complying with the law. It may be that the school will get away with it once, but they won't indefinitely - they're liable to find themselves losing the funding that they are misusing, going before a Disability Discrimination Tribunal, or being joined in judicial review action to enforce the EHCP. Don't imagine for one second that that doesn't or can't happen.

You've ignored the question of what this school should have done if OP's child's TA hadn't been available. The answer is not that they would have left this class unattended as you suggest, but that they would have found another and hopefully more lawful solution. Which is what they should have done here.

Yes I can see how there should be some way of flagging up the amount of times that the plans are not met and the reasons for that to identify schools who are not compliant.

I suppose I just see things from the other side too (albeit in a healthcare setting) and the impact that complaints on a regular basis have on the staff. It leave you feeling very stressed even if there was nothing you could do any differently due to levels of staffing beyond your control., and ultimately leads to many good staff leaving due to the pressure. We have had an unprecedented number of excellent staff leave our profession in the last year as they cannot cope with providing what they see as a substandard service due to poor staffing levels.

My DDs school did close a class and move them to remote learning instead of removing EHCP mandated 1-1s. Why should disadvantaged children always be shortchanged? It is never just a one off.

And the comment early on about parental preference, it is my parental preference that my child doesn't have disabilities and SEN that need an EHCP. It is what it is but she wo t be short changed.

If the 1:1 is specified and quantified in the EHCP, including the specific lessons the 1:1 should be used for, the school are acting unlawfully, the other class is irrelevant. Schools that fail to provide the provision in EHCPs leave a) the LA open to judicial review (as it is the LA responsible for ensuring the provision is provided), and b) the school open to a disability discrimination case.

They also leave themselves open to judicial review - either as an interested party in a claim against the LA, or in their own right for breach of their statutory duty to use their best endeavours to secure special educational provision.

Obviously not, as they are making OP's son go with the TA to the Y3 class. If they were proposing to make the time up on another occasion, there would be no need for that, would there?

But it isn't being changed, is it? The 1:1 session is obviously purportedly happening whilst the TA deals with the Y3 class, otherwise there would be no need to take OP's son with her.

The 1:1 session is obviously purportedly happening whilst the TA deals with the Y3 class, otherwise there would be no need to take OP's son with her.

I agree that I think the school are hoping this is what the op will assume has happened and won’t chase up when the son gets his 1:1 hour back. I also strongly suspect the year 6 teacher will have said they ding want him in for maths.

My Dc , who is only 19,is doing a primary ed degree, and done several placements already. When the class teacher is off sick or on a course , usually she has to fend for herself, but sometimes they will try to put a TA in there with her, especially if it is a new class to her, just to give her a bit of moral support. It might be a situation like that. You are jumping to conclusions

And again, it is never just one lesson that gets changed.

If the TA is in the classroom supporting a student teacher, how can they also be working 1:1 with the op’s son?

The op absolutely would be right to question what the school has done here.

Obviously not. Why do you keep putting ridiculous interpretations on what people say? All that is being suggested is that the school complies with the law and does whatever it would have done in the absence of this TA.

What is particularly worrying is that she may also be assigned as 1:1 to other children besides OP's son. Are they also being deprived of the support which they need and to which they are entitled re entitled by law, and is that OK?

Exactly and that’s why as parents we often need to be assertive in order to ensure schools know we know what should be happening and we will speak out if it isn’t.

We had a minor incident of the plan not being followed a few weeks back so I very politely but clearly pointed out the content of the plan to remind them. His school are great thankfully so it was soon sorted but if parents don’t push then things are let to slip too often