AIBU to have told DS he can ignore teacher on this one?

[OverExpectantParent]

DS is Yr6, has SN and a 1:1TA 6 lessons a week.
After reluctance to go to school, he finally said why. Yr3 teacher is ill and his TA is covering for her. He has been told he will have to go into the Yr3 classroom for his maths lesson today.

I told him he didn't have to, he could ask to do his work in the corridor or stay in his classroom. That I will back him on refusing to go into the Yr 3 classroom, but he must do his work. He's worried the Yr 3's will laugh at him and ask why he's there 🙁
AIBU to have told him that?

No they aren't. His ta is in there. There is no-one else. They are off sick. He would have the support at a different time. Or do you think they can just magic up teachers?

Noone is suggesting he isn't entitled to the support but a dose of realism is necessary

YABU for putting the responsibility on your DS

YANBU for having this conversation yourself with the teacher.

No they aren't. His ta is in there.

The TA is teaching the whole class. How is the op’s son being better supported in there than in the year 6 classroom?

That’s the key issue here.

Droopinloopin I didn’t say that, did I? But the school should not be using 1:1 specified and quantified in EHCPs to cover classes. The other class is irrelevant to whether the OP’s DC should receive the provision set out in a legal document
The other class are by no means irrelevant in a one off, emergency safeguarding situation.
You are being utterly ridiculous.

Neatly overlooking its a legal obligation to provide that support.

The TA isn't there to baby sit - he/she is there to teach 1-2-1 to specified child.

No wonder EHCPs are worth much when so many people want to ignore them when they don't suit.

The TA isn't there to baby sit - he/she is there to teach 1-2-1 to specified child.

No. The TA is there to support the child under the direction of and in collaboration with the main class teacher who is responsible for the progress of every single child in their class. Even the ones with 1:1s.

This is something that so many schools are getting wrong.

Not necessarily. There might be another member of staff in thete but the ta needs to be there as well.

Of course noone has any idea about the arrangements because the op decided to unilaterally override the schools decision instead of picking up the phone and asking what the arrangement actually was !

I fully accept that Purple (DD got a bit of a mixture to be honest).
Regardless Op's child shouldn't be put in this position.

I agree with all other than your second paragraph.

The teacher is still responsible for the teaching. The 1-1 is to help support the pupil so they can access the curriculum and complete the work to the best of their ability. Leaving a TA to teach the child is lazy teaching and passing the responsibility

I’d be delighted to explain it.

Well regarded you may have been, but you’ve just referred to a child with additional needs that are significant enough to warrant 1:1 hours being legally mandated in an EHCP as “collateral damage”.

It’s teachers like you who see children like this as ‘other’ and ‘less than’ and will not listen when you are told that 1) that’s how you see them and 2) the impact that has on those children, the other children in the setting, and the parents who have to fight tooth and nail to get ‘the system’ to listen in the first place and then abide by the provisions that are put in the place.

I’m not teacher bashing.

There are teachers who’ve been involved with my children who I dearly, dearly wished we could take all throughout my children’s school lives. They understand inclusion, fairness, provision, reasonable adjustments, and how to work within the framework that we are sadly all saddled with in the current climate.

If you think that this is blanket teacher bashing then it goes to show how blinkered you are.

No, I didn’t imply it. What I said was the other class is irrelevant to whether the OP’s DC should receive the provision in their EHCP (caveat being as I said earlier if the provision is specified and quantified in the EHCP, including the specific lessons), which it is. I did not say the other class should be left alone, don’t put words in my mouth. The 2 choices are not 1:1 TA teaching the Y3 class or the OP’s DC receiving the support set out in a legal document - there are other options.

In addition, I don't see you offering an acceptable solution to the staffing problem.

Because that wasn’t the point of the OP’s post. But since you ask, a member of staff from elsewhere should cover if possible. If that, a supply or asking a part time member of staff to work extra is not possible then the school should consider closing to Y3 as many classes have over the past couple of years or the school should contact the LA to tell them they cannot provide the provision in the EHCP and put the problem on to the LA since it is them ultimately responsible for ensuring the EHCP provision is provided.

I’m not the one being ridiculous. That’s those condoning a disabled child not receiving the support he is legally entitled to. (Same caveat being as I said earlier if the provision is specified and quantified in the EHCP, including the specific lessons.)

As long as you’re ok with teacher telling D.C. they can ignore you on an action

I would contact the school and ask if he can stay in year 6 instead.

As far as using the TA in an emergency staffing situation (eg due to unplanned staff sickness or absence) I would say that that was fine if the hours were able to be made up later in the week.

I’m not sure what use going in all guns blazing to school or the LEA would do to be honest. If there was no other option- eg no other teachers or Ta available to provide cover at short notice then I’m not sure what you would advocate instead? If it became a regular occurrence then that would be a different story.

Even if it is a legal document, I’m sure the health and safety of the year 3 class would over ride this?

I am nhs and we have severe staff shortages at present. We are constantly having to rearrange or cancel clinics due to staffing shortages, and last minute emergencies eg staff sickness. Not many public services are able to run with a surplus of staff available to fill in at short notice if and when needed at present. Believe me it’s very frustrating for our staff too and actually contributes to increased sickness levels.

Stating your point of view and preference is fine I would say, but I really can’t see what good making a formal complaint for a one off emergency would do, except for take more time for someone to respond to it when they could be in the classroom.

A long term nationwide solution probably needs to be discussed and a plan implemented based on the sheer numbers of pupils with ehcps as this seems to have risen significantly in the past few years. While on the surface it is great that children are getting more individualised support it is pointless if the staffing structures aren’t in place or adequately funded to provide this.

YABU let the school deal with it. Your ds will learn that sometimes things don't work out and he'll learn to deal with them.

Not necessarily. There might be another member of staff in thete but the ta needs to be there as well.

If there’s another member of staff who can support the op’s son 1:1, they can come and do that in year 6.

Even if it is a legal document, I’m sure the health and safety of the year 3 class would over ride this?

No. As has been said in this case it sounds like the wording of the plan allows for some flexibity so although not ideal the TA could be used elsewhere as long as the time is made up (and the OP isn’t objecting to this happening only to her son being sent to a different class)

but in cases like DS where the plan is very clear on it being all the time 1-1 then it’s all the time 1-1. Part of the role of DS 1-1 is be able to support him to be able to be in class and also she knows the medical protocols for him (what to do if feed tube comes out, what to do if he goes into crisis with a medical condition etc)

the role of the 1-1 is to ensure that the child can safely attend school. This can’t just be removed for the sake of others. That’s why I fought to make sure he had a water tight plan so I knew he would be as safe as possible in sxjool

And I do agree completely with a previous poster who said they would never want to be a teacher (or head) nowadays.

It is the same in healthcare at the moment, with people demanding the impossible, which is why so many staff are leaving.

As staff we would love to have the staffing levels, facilities and time to provide everything we are able to provide- we absolutely want what is best for our patients- but the reality is totally depressing and many staff struggle to cope with this.

Apart from more funding I don’t know what the answer is….

#to provide everything we are supposed to provide (not everything we are able to provide)

Just so you know - when a teacher asks a child to do something and the child says, "my Mum says I don't have to,"... rarely ends happily.

If the TA is with other children, that legally dilutes the mandated hour anyway. So if child is being supported in a group of six, he is only getting one sixth if his hour. If the TA has the whole class then one thirtieth (or whatever)
Either way, he is 'owed' some time back which - you never know - might be the plan.

Yes I can see that is a different situation whereby the health and safety of your dc would be severely compromised if their ta were to be told to work in a different classroom.

It’s teachers like you who see children like this as ‘other’ and ‘less than’ and will not listen when you are told that 1) that’s how you see them and 2) the impact that has on those children, the other children in the setting, and the parents who have to fight tooth and nail to get ‘the system’ to listen in the first place and then abide by the provisions that are put in the place

Absolutely not. I completely accept that parents have to fight to get provision for their SN child and in no way do I think that these children are in any way less worthy than their classmates.

What I am saying is that in this particular instance, when a teacher is off sick and there is no one spare except for the TA, the needs of the whole class must override those of one individual pupil. It won't do untold damage to the OP's child if he misses his 1 to 1 provision for a short period of time. What would happen if the TA was absent?

I'm fairly certain that you would not be able to suggest a more acceptable solution.

It's pretty shitty of you to put a 10-year-old in that situation. If you really couldn't manage to call and speak to anyone in the school (which I doubt) you could at least have written him a note.

And I do agree completely with a previous poster who said they would never want to be a teacher (or head) nowadays.

People who think they are not responsible for every single child in their class including
the ones with 1:1s should not be teachers.

The ok wasn’t looking for anything unreasonable here. The son could have stayed in his class and worked under the guidance of his teacher. The ta could still have covered the other class. The son gets his hour of 1:1 time another time. What’s so awful about that?

And to be totally clear, I am talking only about this specific situation with the information that the op has given. Obviously where EHCPs mandate more specific or full time 1:1 support, that needs to be respected and a different solution to the staffing problem found.