Aibu to think that a "nurture group" is nit the answer?

[Auntieobem]

Dd2 is just finishing S1 (1st year ar secondary school in Scotland). She was put in a class where she knew no-one, all her friends in another class. She just got on with it, but hasn't made any friends in her class and was feeling left out and isolated in class (always last picked etc). It is starting to.impact on her and she's not enjoying school. I encouraged her to speak to her guidance teacher (particularly about what I thought could have been bullying behaviour). I also mentioned my concerns at parents evening. She's doing well academically - just had a glowing report.

Anyway - I've just been messaged to say that she has a letter about a nurture group she's being asked to be part of. From what I understand nurture groups are for children with behaviour problems which mean they are disruptive or disengaged? Dd does not have emotional or behavioural difficulties? Easiest way to solve her problems would be to switch classes?

I'm likely to be jumping the gun here, but seems like school are suggesting she is the one with the problem to be addressed?

I'd take it to mean it's a chance to form friendships in a more targeted way

Don't see why you've taken offence....

I don’t think nurture groups are just for the disruptive kids. DS was in one in primary for a while, more of a way to help him chat things through. He’s always been well behaved and doing well at school. He really benefitted from it, and enjoyed it as he got toast there too 😂

I haven't taken offence as such, I just don't understand why they are taking this approach. She has a very strong friendship group outwith her class. Reading about nurture groups they are to help young people with significant social, behavioural and mental health difficulties- which she doesn't have? She has very positive relationships with teachers and her friends - just none of her friends are in her class and the girls in her class exclude her (e.g. telling her she can't use their changing room for PE because she isn't their friend)

Have you asked the school to discuss this with you? What exactly the nurture group is what they expect to achieve?

You say you've read about nurture groups. What does the school actually say about them?

It sounds like you think "nurture group" is code for a group for badly behaved kids, and it isn't.

It sounds like she is struggling a bit socially, and the school are trying to support her in this. It is a good thing!

Moving her class isn't going to help with the development of skills to build friendships with new peers, which is what she needs to do.

I think the school are offering something really helpful.

You say she feels left out, she hasnt got any friends, it's starting to affect her work and yet you then say she doesn't have significant social difficulties.

Of course she does!

Nurture groups at the school I'm at are for kids who have may have issues settling/making friends in their tutor group/lack confidence/have friendship issues etc.

They're very successful and some kids only need one term in then whereas others need the whole year. Please let your child take part.

Haven't even read the letter yet! (Which is why I think I'm jumping the gun!)

Nurture groups can definitely be used for a multiple of reasons, one of which is to help a child form friendships so it could be useful.

However it seems very horse door bolted in my opinion. She's had these difficulties all year and they are only just attempting to try and support her when she's now at the end of the year and will be in a new class with other friends in a matter of weeks.

Why has it taken so long and what would the benefit be of tackling the issue now would be my question to them.

Your daughter has significant social issues. In the nurture group I taught (it was a watered down version of original social group) there were kids of below, average and above average academic ability.

Email the school with your concerns and what you think would help.

This is exactly the same in my school (albeit a primary school and not secondary).
They're there for children who have friendship difficulties/shyness/low self esteem and anything along those lines really. They're seen as a positive thing because they can really help to be in a small group and casually chat or do activities together.
Read the letter first and then consider contacting the school for more information.

I think you've seen an example of a nurture group and school are using the phrase differently to that. One of my dc was in a lovely one for some anxious children to help with confidence.

My sons were in nurture groups at primary because they needed their social skills confidence boosting. They have no behavioural issues but being quiet/shy was holding them back eg they didn't contribute in group activities but were given the confidence to speak up and understand that their contribution is as worthy as the loudest person.

I mean this kindly, but if she hasn't made any friends in the new class, then it seems reasonable to assume that she probably does need to develop her social skills a bit. There is no shame in that, and it's good that the school is trying to help her with that.

I don't think nurture groups are exclusively for children who are badly behaved at all. Just for those who need a bit of extra support and input.

The fact that she has friendships outside of the class is really great, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't need help with how to build relationships with new people - it's a somewhat different skill to being able to maintain friendships that may have been in place since she was very young, but it's one that she will undoubtedly need throughout her life.

I don’t think it sounds like she has social difficulties. It sounds as if she is on the periphery in this particular group, which is very common, and as the OP says, could be easily addressed by moving classes.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with nurture groups but absolutely pointless for a child who doesn’t need nurture.

Sometimes I catastrophise with stuff the school does and go off on a tangent. On occasion I've written snottier emails than were perhaps warranted because I've already decided that the situation is X when in fact it's not quite like that.

Rather than put all your thoughts and concerns down what about asking for a face-to-face or phone call?

I always feel it's far easier to talk in person because those tangents that might be dead ends are resolved really quickly. You could just go in with a simple 'can you tell me more about the nurture group?' and I'll bet you'll come out 20 minutes later feeling really positive.

She has been in this particular class for nearly a year and hasn't made any friends. Do you not think that suggests some social difficulties?

Put some kids in a room full of other kids that they don't know and they'll have made umpteen friends within an hour. Most would have made at least one friend after a few weeks. The school have clearly concluded that the OP's dd would benefit from some additional support in this area and they are offering her that support.

We do our kids no favours by assuming that their friendship issues are all down to other kids not being friendly. Of course, in some situations, that's what is happening, but very often, it is an issue of needing to develop better social skills. I look back on my early years at secondary school now and really wish that someone had taken me aside and offered me the kind of support that the OP's dd is being offered.

Have you asked that she changes class in September?
If they have said no - make some noise. Advocate for your daughter. Escalate it - make some demands in time for next year. Teachers don't always know or do what is best.

Youngest DD was in nurture. It wasn't because she was disruptive it was because she needed more support.

I think it might be good for her?

She has been in this particular class for nearly a year and hasn't made any friends. Do you not think that suggests some social difficulties?

Honestly, no I don't. It actually sounds more likely that the OPs daughter is being deliberately excluded by these other children and therefore has no friends in the class through no fault of her own. Especially as she has no problems making friends elsewhere or before starting in this class.

DD's school has something similar they call 'kitbag sessions'.

She goes because she has fallen between groups of friends and her teacher noticed she seemed a bit more subdued than she used to.

It's really helpful and she enjoys it a lot. It's a good way for her to understand that other kids are also dealing with their own shit, as I think she used to assume that everyone had a perfect existence apart from her.

It's not for the naughty kids. If she's been a bit socially lost this could really help.

A nurture group isn't usually for misbehaving children but those with social anxiety etc.

She'll be with the same class next year too

She'll be with the same class next year too

That's disappointing. In that case though if definitely be asking them what they think will change next year to improve the situation? Even if she does attend the nurture group that's not going to help resolve the problem if the other children are excluding her.