Aibu to think that a "nurture group" is nit the answer?

[Auntieobem]

Dd2 is just finishing S1 (1st year ar secondary school in Scotland). She was put in a class where she knew no-one, all her friends in another class. She just got on with it, but hasn't made any friends in her class and was feeling left out and isolated in class (always last picked etc). It is starting to.impact on her and she's not enjoying school. I encouraged her to speak to her guidance teacher (particularly about what I thought could have been bullying behaviour). I also mentioned my concerns at parents evening. She's doing well academically - just had a glowing report.

Anyway - I've just been messaged to say that she has a letter about a nurture group she's being asked to be part of. From what I understand nurture groups are for children with behaviour problems which mean they are disruptive or disengaged? Dd does not have emotional or behavioural difficulties? Easiest way to solve her problems would be to switch classes?

I'm likely to be jumping the gun here, but seems like school are suggesting she is the one with the problem to be addressed?

Thanks all, used to see things from a different perspective. The rest of her class (90% of them anyway) went to primary school together. They already had established social groups which haven't widened very much. Will see what letter days and (importantly) will discuss openly with dd whether she thinks it will help her. I won't be sharing my concerns with her.

This is what I think as well.

What about the others who are not part of the 90%. Can she make friends with them?

It actually sounds more likely that the OPs daughter is being deliberately excluded by these other children and therefore has no friends in the class through no fault of her own. Especially as she has no problems making friends elsewhere or before starting in this class.

My parents said this about me - I had friends in primary and sometimes outside school and did make a new friends in PE classes - but secondary school manged to seperate me in day to day lessons from all my friends - they were different streams or one class in same stream we never saw.

School very much balmed me and older I got seem to view me as odd - as I've reach adulthood - I've increasing got diagnosed with things - and as it turns out I'm not neurotypical and I probably would have benefited from support.

So I think it's hard to know what's behind this without talking to the school and finding out why they've suggested this group and what they hope it will do for OP DD.

It is possible this is only thing they can think to offer and it's not appropriate - but hard to know with out more information.

What about the others who are not part of the 90%. Can she make friends with them?

That leaves her with a potential friendship pool of about 2 children. Plus in the 10 months she's been in the class I'm sure she's probably already tried this.

The simple truth is if the other children don't want to include her then no amount of support is going to help her friendship issues.

When DD1 was struggling with school class - guides was a great for her it helepd her see it was the school situation with her class and not her that was the issue -they shfte aorund start of Y9 - and she was much happier.

It might be worth seeing if the school has any scope for moving an individual around clases before end of next year - if you haven't already.

Yes, if the entire class is part of a concerted plan to exclude her, then you're right, a nurture group probably won't help with that.

I just don't find that particularly likely. Yes, you get cliquey groups who are nasty to some kids and deliberately exclude them, but a whole class full? Sorry, but I think it's much more likely that there are some issues with the OP's dd that are holding her back.

I'm not saying this to be mean at all. I'm saying it because I wish someone had recognised that there were some issues with my social skills when I was younger instead of laying all of the blame on other kids. If they had actually had some faith in the idea that I could work on those skills and improve them, then perhaps I would have been much happier.

Why were all the other girls put in classes with children they knew, and your daughter was the only one switched to a class where she knew no one?

My DD was put in a nurture group as she was in a very similar situation as yours OP. She was moved from a class where she had a strong friendship group into a class where she knew no-one. She is generally quite anxious/shy/socially inept but does well academically and isn't disruptive. It does seem to be the standard process for children with social difficulties, not just the naughty ones!

I can't say it's done my DD much good though, tbh. The school took a shy, anxious child out of a secure friendship group at a time where she was experiencing distressing events in her home life and then were surprised that she struggled 😏. Still pisses me off.

I hope your DD finds the experience more helpful.

That sounds a difficult situation. Are they at least going to split them into some different sets next year?
If not I'd be asking (again?) for her to be moved.
Otherwise are you looking at the classes not being mixed up again until options in S4?

could be easily addressed by moving classes.

Making new friends is a really useful skill to have both in school and in later life. It isn't realistic to just rely on an existing friend being available in all circumstances.

Making it through nearly a whole year of school in a new group without making even one connection does suggest that the child could do with some help and support.

Pity it's taken so long for the school to react. Better late than never.

Looks as though classes were arranged based on primary school catchment areas. Dd wasn't in catchment area for her school, has been put in class with school for our catchment area. She already goes to guides - no problems with friendships outwith this class.

OP, she might be very lucky this has been offered to her. There may well be lots of other kids who would struggle making new friends but this hasn’t been picked up on because they have their primary school friends in their class with them. My DC went to secondary with a big group of existing friends but is only just coming out of their shell now, entering the upper years of school. This might have been a helpful thing for them in the junior years.

I run a nurture group in my secondary school - 12 children all of different academic abilities some with additional SEN but the over riding common denominator is anxiety and / or friendship issues.
It is good that she wasn't put in a NG straightaway.

It actually sounds more likely that the OPs daughter is being deliberately excluded by these other children and therefore has no friends in the class through no fault of her own.
She’ll potentially be taught strategies within this group to help her navigate deliberate exclusion.

It’s hard though, if it seems that the others know each other already. I have an extremely social DC and one who is less so and even the sociable one can be a bit loath to hang around with new friends when they are in a large group of friends from primary.

I teach nurture groups in Scotland. I'd say jump at the chance - they're not for huge behavioural issues. Think of them as providing a safe space to chat, to socialise and meet new people. Resources are so scarce now that I'd honestly suggest trying it for a term at least as it may not get offered again if there's no money for staff to run it.

They're gentle, encouraging safe spaces to meet other kids, get to know staff better (and for us to get to know the kids better too), play games, etc etc. I love taking my groups, the kids are so nice and I feel like I can really make a difference to them.

Exactly. It's no good her doing a nurture group if it's not going to make a difference to the class dynamic. From everything the OP has said this isn't a child who finds socialising difficult. It's a child who finds herself on the fringes of a group who are already established and who have no desire to add new people.

Let's be honest we're all guilty of sticking with the status quo at times when it comes to socialising so it's hardly surprising a group of kids who all know each other are going to remain together as a group.

Trying to see the positives and hoping she does benefit. Doesn't help when she says "But mum I don't WANT to be friends with them, I'm happy with the friends I have"

I'd say she does have social difficulties if she hasn't made any friends after nearly a whole academic year in that class

Our nurture groups are not for disruptive kids, they are for ones that are similar to how you’ve described your lovely daughter

I think the Op may be right. My son has loads of friends now he is 15, probably too many as his social life is his priority, he is popular but it is all down to him. He had a bad experience in year 7 and 8 and just told me not to let Dd, who is going in to year 7 in September on social media - Instagram, Tik Tok, Snapchat as she is too young, this is referencing his own experience. The school were useless, tried their best put him in one of these groups but it did zero to assist him as he doesn't have any problems relating to people or social situations. In the end, he stepped out of his comfort zone, joined in football, which he is pretty good at and forced himself to chat and make connections. It took him about a year and a half as Covid hit but he has 4 solid friends that are boys and tons of peripheral friends including about girls he chats to and walks dogs with and goes to The Tate with. The school did nothing of any use and he did it all of his own back.

My son when aged 5 was in a nurture group. His behaviour was always very good, well behaved etc. He was very very shy and had quite bad anxiety. It helped him come out his shell.

Hi im a nurture and pastoral care teacher in a secondary school.

I just wanted to let you know nurture groups aren’t always for children with behavioural problems. Children can be placed in one to help them with confidence and self esteem.

You could also ask why your daughter has been placed in a nurture group, one of the responsibilities of a nurture teacher is to have good communication with parents/carers of children involved in the NG so I’m sure you could arrange a meeting after the holidays.

You could also arrange a meeting with the guidance teacher about your concerns with your daughter and find the best way to go forward.

if you have concerns about bulling you could also contact head of year.

i hope this helps 😇