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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who is being unreasonable?

279 replies

User2392 · 06/06/2022 08:25

I know you all hate these types of threads but I wanted to keep it as unbiased as I could so apologies!

Olivia has a child with Paul, they are not together and Paul has another younger child with his wife Lizzy.

Olivia and Lizzy have always gotten on well enough, not the best of friends but amicable and as the years have gone on, friendly.

Olivia's child has recently told her that he feels since his sister was born that Lizzy and her family don't care about him as much and are always doing things with his sister and not him. This upset Olivia.

Olivia and Paul don't really get on so she decided to send a message to Lizzy directly just asking if they could talk about it. The message was polite but to the point.

Lizzy replied saying that she is sorry he feels that way but her daughter will always be number one to both her and her family (her parents, grandparents, siblings etc..) and that if there are any issues with their child, Olivia should take it up with Paul. She also added that it was none of Olivia's business how much or what Lizzy does with her own daughter and she won't be made to feel like she has to justify it. The message was also polite but obviously Lizzy wasn't happy.

Who's unreasonable?

(Flipped a coin for the vote so don't read anything into that)

YABU - Olivia shouldn't have sent the message in the first place.

YANBU - Lizzy's reply was cruel.

OP posts:
MichelleScarn · 06/06/2022 21:48

My issue with Lizzie is based on her response of her daughter comes first.....
.Obviously her daughters needs are as important but shouldn't come at the price of dss needs.

This reminds me of the 'everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others'

of course Lizzie's daughter and her needs are important, we just have to check with Olivia that these needs are OK with her and her son, and then everything is dandy ..

HiJenny35 · 06/06/2022 21:49

How old are the children involved? It's pretty shitty to have been happy taking the child out on all family trips and now he has a younger half sister no longer take him, how did you think the child would feel? How hard is it to make these outings when he isn't around so he doesn't see he isn't invited. Personally I'd never have one child know another family member is off out somewhere they would enjoy and not take them too, it's just mean. Why isn't his father arranging nice places for him to go while his sibling is out? No you don't have to treat your step kid as nice as your own child but I suppose it depends what sort of person you want your child to grow into, if you want them to be kind and caring I'd show them that having days out as a family and not leaving her step brother out is the right thing to do. How would you feel if you break up, Paul has another child and yours is the one left at home while new sibling gets the treats. I just don't think you should leave a child out.

Harridan1981 · 06/06/2022 21:54

Presumably Olivia's family take him out?

sunlight81 · 06/06/2022 21:59

How often does Olivia's family take lizzys child on days out?

Surely if u expect lizzys fam to treat Olivia's child the same then Olivia's fam should reciprocate!!

Rainyjubilee · 06/06/2022 22:02

Olivia is unreasonanle and Lizzie nailed it. It’s appalling Olivia sent that message and Lizzie is right,she has no need to justify to Olivia how she raises her child nor does she need to be the one to ensure her son gets treated the same.

that’s on the parents. Olivia’s son has two parents, both equally capable of making an effort with their kid. Olivia shouldn’t be thinking it’s Lizzies job.

autienotnaughty · 06/06/2022 22:19

User39498 · 06/06/2022 21:40

@autienotnaughty
but children get upset for all sorts of reasons, because they aren’t allowed chocolate for breakfast, because they have to go to school or nursery, because they don’t want to do homework or don’t want a bath. In all of these examples children are upset but no one has got it wrong. The child just needs love and guidance and boundaries and parents to parent and make them feel secure and loved.

My issue with Lizzie is based on her response of her daughter comes first.

so Lizzie should not put her daughter’s needs first?

Obviously her daughters needs are as important but shouldn't come at the price of dss needs.

which if DSS’s needs weren’t met?

I don't agree with deciding children's feelings aren't valid because they are children. But I do agree he needs love support boundaries etc from his parents. Ds needs are not being met because he feels left out and his step mums response was basically 'tough' . I appreciate this may be in annoyance at Olivia's text rather than her genuine view of her step sons struggles.

User39498 · 06/06/2022 23:02

@autienotnaughty i never said that DSS’s feelings weren’t valid. They are valid, in the same way it is valid a child may not want to go to school because they are tired and so on, but they need guidance to see things as you said in a logical way, which will help them short and long term.

Feeling left out doesn’t mean needs aren’t being met... but in any case, it is really up to DSS’s father and mother to ensure that his needs are met

User39498 · 06/06/2022 23:08

@autienotnaughty i never said that DSS’s feelings weren’t valid. They are valid, in the same way it is valid a child may not want to go to school because they are tired and so on, but they need guidance to see things as you said in a logical way, which will help them short and long term.

Feeling left out doesn’t mean needs aren’t being met... but in any case, it is really up to DSS’s father and mother to ensure that his needs are met

WiddlinDiddlin · 07/06/2022 02:59

sunlight81 · 06/06/2022 21:59

How often does Olivia's family take lizzys child on days out?

Surely if u expect lizzys fam to treat Olivia's child the same then Olivia's fam should reciprocate!!

Presumably, Lizzy's child has never MET Olivias family, doesn't know they exist and is probably too young to be aware or care. Nor is Lizzy's child actually present to witness the older child being taken out by Olivias family, and be left behind.

On the other hand, Olivias child not only knows Lizzys family exists, but knows them well enough to have done things with them in the past, to the point that he is now feeling left out because he IS seeing it and he DID have a prior relationship with them.

So no, it isn't remotely comparable.

If Lizzy's parents did not want to include the older child perhaps they shouldn't have formed a relationship and some kind of expectation from him in the first place - maybe that was cruel or thoughtless of them?

But as I say, without knowing details like how well the older child knows the GP's, how much time he spends with his father and Lizzy, how much time the GP's have, how old everyone else... its hard to say if they are being reasonable or not.

Olivia still should have raised it with Paul, not Lizzy.

GDT · 07/06/2022 03:18

the child that is feeling short changed needs to be loved more by the mom and anyone that can step up in the family, but she can also slowly be taught about others feelings, their heart breaks, how to cope with and enjoy what they do get compared to the millions that don't....Share some stories from kids her age from abused then multiple foster families so she might see the silver, no gold in her own dark clouds.... Unwavering, unconditional love and acceptance of her feelings will help her through life and times like this...and teach her about acceptance instead of always seeing only the bad in circumstances she and you have no control over....You can never FIX other people, force them to do what you expect or believe is right....That is not healthy and is a receipy for a life time of disappointment and anger at others for not meeting your bar....

RenegadeMatron · 07/06/2022 03:40

It’s very obvious you’re Olivia, and sorry, but you’re being unreasonable.

ladybugcatnoir1 · 07/06/2022 04:33

How old are the children involved?
My stepson and dd have 4 years between them. Before dd came along he was very close to my family (particularly me dad) as my husband isn't very close to his.
He has been in our lives 10 years now and was only 2 when we met and my parents and family refer to him as their grandchild/nephew etc. I can't imagine how sad it would have been if when my dd came along they just stopped bothering with him! Your son must feel very upset about it and I totally get your frustration.

Tandora · 07/06/2022 04:47

ugtgghhhhh these threads. All children should be treated the same by all parents / caregivers/ adults in whose care they are under. It’s appalling that people justify this kind of behaviour that is so hurtful to a child.

Lizzie is unreasonable and so is Paul obviously.

Tandora · 07/06/2022 04:50

myuterusistryingtokillme · 06/06/2022 08:51

Olivia is, she should be talking to Paul about how their shared child feels, and she should be supporting her child in understanding that Lizzy's family will do things with just his sister in the same way that Olivia's family will do things with just him and that it's ok

It’s not “okay” to the little boy though -. It’s hurtful. Dismissing and invalidating his feelings won’t make it better , it will just compound his hurt. You can’t just teach a child that something that is hurtful to them is ok.

autienotnaughty · 07/06/2022 05:05

Tandora · 07/06/2022 04:47

ugtgghhhhh these threads. All children should be treated the same by all parents / caregivers/ adults in whose care they are under. It’s appalling that people justify this kind of behaviour that is so hurtful to a child.

Lizzie is unreasonable and so is Paul obviously.

Yes this!!!!

whiteroseredrose · 07/06/2022 05:17

What about Olivia's parents?

And Paul's parents?

Don't they make a fuss of Olivia's son? Those are his grandparents.

whiteroseredrose · 07/06/2022 05:21

I really don't get this expectation that all must be treated equally at all times.

I was Olivia's son in this scenario. Lizzie's parents were always lovely to me but they weren't my grandparents. Of course they did lots with my half siblings, not me. But I had my own grandparents where I was a priority.

boronia · 07/06/2022 05:38

Unanananana · 06/06/2022 08:32

Olivia is BU. Lizzy is correct and her message was correct in its entirety.

Olivia should take issues up with Paul if she is concerned. Lizzys parenting of her child and that childs relationships with Lizzy's family are none of Olivia's business.

My thoughts too.

Original poster
User2392 · 07/06/2022 06:22

But as I say, without knowing details like how well the older child knows the GP's, how much time he spends with his father and Lizzy, how much time the GP's have, how old everyone else... its hard to say if they are being reasonable or not

Olivia's son is 10 and Lizzy's daughter is 3.

He stays with Lizzy and Paul 50% of the time. The grandparents in question are retired.

OP posts:
GoldPig · 07/06/2022 06:55

I don’t understand why everyone’s berating Olivia for contacting Lizzy. Surely if the relationship is more amicable than with Paul it’s more likely to get a positive result, especially as it’s mother to mother where the concern raised is much more likely to be understood?

Lizzy has confirmed what Olivia’s son has observed - the daughter is favoured over him by both Lizzy and her family. Even extra effort from Paul isn’t going to undo that deflating fact.

I grew up in a blended family and it’s a fact of life that impacts on your sense of worth - you find balance in the attention you get elsewhere.

GoldPig · 07/06/2022 07:00

whiteroseredrose · 07/06/2022 05:21

I really don't get this expectation that all must be treated equally at all times.

I was Olivia's son in this scenario. Lizzie's parents were always lovely to me but they weren't my grandparents. Of course they did lots with my half siblings, not me. But I had my own grandparents where I was a priority.

Same here except that my step family felt like full family to me. I was aware we weren’t tied by blood but socially we were more connected than with my family on my birth father’s side. So to see younger cousins (not siblings in my case) suddenly favoured over you does hurt a bit as a child - and the parent of a child who is hurting naturally wants to find a way to help.

MichelleScarn · 07/06/2022 07:21

Lizzy has confirmed what Olivia’s son has observed - the daughter is favoured over him by both Lizzy and her family. Even extra effort from Paul isn’t going to undo that deflating fact.

It is deflating, but is it wrong? That Lizzy and her family favour her own child/grandchild? Surely that's something that should be expected?
Are they actually horrible and mean to him?

Paq · 07/06/2022 07:32

Paul needs to step up but tbh even if this was a regular, non blended family it's a likely scenario that GPs make a bigger fuss of the girl/younger one.

Olivia should have mentioned it to Paul, not Lizzy. Lizzy obviously felt under attack and responded as such.

Tandora · 07/06/2022 07:46

whiteroseredrose · 07/06/2022 05:21

I really don't get this expectation that all must be treated equally at all times.

I was Olivia's son in this scenario. Lizzie's parents were always lovely to me but they weren't my grandparents. Of course they did lots with my half siblings, not me. But I had my own grandparents where I was a priority.

Ok that’s how you felt and fine, but that’s not how the little boy in this scenario feels. So that’s a very important difference.
it may be that there are some differences in circumstances between this case and yours that explain the different feelings of the children involved, or it may be simply that you and the boy are different people.

Tandora · 07/06/2022 07:49

User2392 · 07/06/2022 06:22

But as I say, without knowing details like how well the older child knows the GP's, how much time he spends with his father and Lizzy, how much time the GP's have, how old everyone else... its hard to say if they are being reasonable or not

Olivia's son is 10 and Lizzy's daughter is 3.

He stays with Lizzy and Paul 50% of the time. The grandparents in question are retired.

OP , I would question the 50/50 custody arrangement in these circumstances. If Lizzie and Paul are not willing to take the boys feeling into account and treat them as equal to the other child in their home, he should not have to be there 50% of the time. It may damage his development and self esteem to continue this way and teach him that his feelings simply don’t matter.