Nursing should be re-named?

[SunshinePie]

Was pondering over this recently, is calling “nursing” is a bit old fashioned? You now need a degree to be a nurse, and they often are pretty much doing junior doctor jobs. Calling it something else that recognises it’s academic demands, and also more inclusive to males wanting to work in the field…something like Healthcare Medic / Healthcare Practitioner/ Assistant Medic…. Or similar, you get the idea….

-YABU, it should be kept “nurse”, it’s traditional and has roots in “nursing an infant” ie breastfeeding (that reflects the caring nature)

-YANBU it’s old fashioned, insulting to people with degrees and esp males.

Working in the same department for 20 years doesn't mean you've had more intellectually meaningful training and education than a consultant.

notallangels - are you a doctor?

If your general paediatric consultants can't manage DKA or breathing difficulties, then you have a major problem. It's part of the core training curriculum. If any of my consultant colleagues couldn't manage something that basic we'd be having an urgent meeting with the CD and MD. And I did not say anything to diss nurses, so please stop putting words in my mouth.

@Notallangels

They exist because there are not enough doctors

doesn't this contradict the assertion that nurses can never be anything like doctors?

If that's true why would specialist nurses be used to fill doctor gaps?

Because the NHS is on its knees and sees using non doctors as cheap doctors as its only solution. Doesn't make it safe or right.

@Notallangels

The specialist nurse and anp roles have existed for a long time.

Still that doesn't answer the question.

If nursing roles can never be comparable to a doctor, how can they be shoring up doctor roles?

For me to have my specialist role I have done extensive training over many years which concluded with me doing 2 years at Uni and I now have 6 monthly updates to update my knowledge and practice with senior specialists .

I think the fact that I train doctors is proof enough that they know I have more knowledge than them in this field.

I really don’t understand why you’re so keen to make it a nurse - versus - doctor situation when the reality is that we all work together as a great team. We all respect each other’s roles and knowledge and work together to meet the children’s needs to the best that we can.

I just can’t understand why you are so against this?

I've already answered your question. Maybe you should go back and have a more careful read.

I would like absolute clarity about the rank of the person I am dealing with. There are far too many heas dressed up to look like nurses than I care to see. Increasingly Dr's refer to all those below them as a nurse too, even if they aren't. It isn't helpful.

Similarly if I am dealing with a Dr in A&E I want to know if they are an FY1 or a registrar.

You might want to examine both your disrespect for nursing and your internalised misogyny here

Nurses are not 'junior doctors' - an experienced nurse has far more knowledge and know-how than a jr doctor. A nurse's job is to care for patients in order to help them regain their health. That is different but equally important to a doctor's primarily diagnostic role. The fact that nurses now take on some work that used to be exclusive to doctors is just an extra string to their bow, and a proper reflection and use of their abilities, it hasn't suddenly made nursing a profession - it's been that for a long time.

The title nursing reflects the care focused role of nurses. It also reflects the story of generations of hard working women going back for millennia, and the modern history of how ward-maids gradually turned into nursing professionals.

Why would we want to scrub that proud history out? If it does put men off (I've never seen any evidence that it does) then that is something to address rather than pander to.

I don't think the term nurse needs to be protected - care assistants used to be called auxiliary nurses, and the term nursing also refers to breastfeeding so it has a broad history. But I do think referring to qualified nurses as Registered Nurses, as we used to, would be helpful.

2 years at uni is just not comparable to the 8 years postgraduate training to become a consultant.

It is seriously concerning that you cannot see this.

Flattening the hierarchy was intended to make it easier for people to speak up and to improve safety. It doesn't mean that everyone is equally qualified to make medical decisions.

And if you are truly training consultants in any meaningful way, your department is in serious trouble.

Doctors undergo rigorous and extensive training and are much better educated in medicine than any other members of the MDT, as that is their job.

Claiming that you're better qualified and more knowledgeable than a consultant is dangerous and misleading, and poor teamwork.

If your general paediatric consultants can't manage DKA or breathing difficulties, then you have a major problem.

Of course they can but they would still go to the Consultant who specialises in that field too.

If we have a child come in with a psychotic episode even though any Consultant can treat it/manage it they would still contact the Mental Health Team for their specialist input.

Increasingly they are doing the job of junior doctors, for example masters educated advanced nurse practitioners. Many of the tasks even a staff nurse does used to be done only by doctors.

Do you work in healthcare/know the role of a nurse?

@Notallangels what’s your game? What job do you do? Why are you so anti nurse and pro doctor? Your attitude is bizarre. Why can’t a nurse of 20 years with huge amounts of relevant experience and training do the same job as a doctor? What’s the issue?

Claiming that you're better qualified and more knowledgeable than a consultant is dangerous and misleading, and poor teamwork.

Are Dieticians more qualified than Doctors?

Are Speech and Language Therapists more qualified than doctors?

Are physiotherapists more qualified than doctors?

Of course not - but they are far more knowledgable in their fields than doctors are, hence why the roles exist and why doctors call on them for support.

As a nurse, I know I am not more qualified than a doctor, but I do have more knowledge in my field than they do, hence why my role exists and why I take the lead in the care of certain infants.

This shows a poor understanding of medicine because it isn't as simple as a patient with a specific condition being automatically referred to a specialty consultant.

Most diabetics won't get to a consultant endocrinologist, UTIs don't all go under Renal, LRTIs don't all need Resp. Specialties take "gen med" triages outside their specialty interest because broad-based medical education means your average Renal consultant can manage a HAP or a HHS or a delirious UTI.

@Notallangels what’s your game? What job do you do? Why are you so anti nurse and pro doctor? Your attitude is bizarre.

I think most people are asking the same question.

I imagine they’re a doctor, or a retired one maybe.

@Notallangels

Why wouldnt appropriately qualified and experienced SN and ANPs be qualified to make medical decisions?

Choosing not to go down the route of being a doctor doesn't mean you wouldn't have been capable.

Medical school is still an 'old boys club' in terms of who is accepted

They can't do the same job as a doctor because they're not a doctor. To become one you need a medical degree.

A flight attendant doesn't become a pilot because they've flown on planes for 20 years.

Actually female medical students outnumber males at 60% and there are many widening access schemes. It is most definitely not an old boys' club.

Then I guess working with adults is very different to working in Paediatrics. All of our Consultants have their specific speciality. All of them obviously have a very broad knowledge base and can treat anything that comes through the door, but once that acute episode is over, the baby/infant/child/teen will be seen by the specialist team/consultant as is needed before they are discharged.

@Notallangels

Yes, I'm aware of the gender split.

Female consultants are greatly outnumbered by male though

That wasn't the point I was making though.

I meant in terms of class, not gender.

Becoming a doctor has more to do with class and opportunity than ability

@Notallangels

Yes, I'm aware of the gender split.

Female consultants are greatly outnumbered by male though

That wasn't the point I was making though.

I meant in terms of class, not gender.

My guess- not all angels is that dreadful doctor who treats nurses like shit and therefore all nurses avoid them as much as possible thereby reinforcing their ‘nurses are dreadful’ perception.
All nurses go on night out to celebrate when they finish their rotation.
Am I close @Notallangels

My guess- not all angels is that dreadful doctor who treats nurses like shit and therefore all nurses avoid them as much as possible thereby reinforcing their ‘nurses are dreadful’ perception.
All nurses go on night out to celebrate when they finish their rotation.
Am I close @Notallangels