Nursing should be re-named?

[SunshinePie]

Was pondering over this recently, is calling “nursing” is a bit old fashioned? You now need a degree to be a nurse, and they often are pretty much doing junior doctor jobs. Calling it something else that recognises it’s academic demands, and also more inclusive to males wanting to work in the field…something like Healthcare Medic / Healthcare Practitioner/ Assistant Medic…. Or similar, you get the idea….

-YABU, it should be kept “nurse”, it’s traditional and has roots in “nursing an infant” ie breastfeeding (that reflects the caring nature)

-YANBU it’s old fashioned, insulting to people with degrees and esp males.

I'm a paramedic and I have much more advanced clinical skills than a nurse.

Do you? Because both professions complete three years clinical training to degree level. I suspect I have "much more advanced clinical skills" in my area of expertise, unless you think yourself able to undertake specialist therapies like EMDR and family therapy.

Don't be so arrogant. Nurses and paramedics are colleagues. They do different roles. Paramedics are not superior.

Honestly, I have never heard someone speak like this about a professional group that isn't female-dominated. It is just misogyny.

What is it about a nursing degree that you are struggling to recognise as a degree?

Did you even bother reading the rest of my post?

And yes Paramedics come out of their undergraduate degree with more advanced clinical skills and autonamy than a general nurse coming out of their nursing degree. No newly qualified band 5 nurse thrombolyses, or provides full ALS including intubation and autonamous adminstration of drugs, or gives Morphine.

Were your EMDR & family therapy skills/qualifications part of your undergraduate degree?

However, we don't have the skills and training in management of multiple patients across a ward or department, this is something that often goes unrecognised as it is difficult to quantify. Many doctors lack these skills, at least until much later in their career, which is why the nurses roll is so crucial to the running of the NHS. This is not Misogyny it is just different skill sets.

I've often thought that some folk think that a nursing degree is a jumped up mickey mouse qualification and that nursing is a skill that can be learnt from the pages of take a break medical column. People are often surprised about the level of autonomy and responsibility I have as an experienced crit care nurse. We often know more about ventilation and haemofiltration than the junior medics do.

I see. Different skills set, but paramedics are "more clinically advanced". I think you are seeing your own skills and assuming they comprise the whole of healthcare, which they don't.

I can't comment of general nurses, as I am not one, but I doubt you could do the job of a mental health nurse at qualification. No, I did not learn EMDR as an undergraduate, but I did learn CBT, DBT and a host of other assessments and therapeutic tools. These are clinical skills, just different to yours.

I think it's possible that they feel it isn't really deserving of a BSc in the same way that some of the allied HCP degrees are, and the advanced clinical practice MSc is, yet despite all the management and governance studied it isn't really a BA either. It's somewhere in the middle, and some people can't deal with grey areas and ambiguity.

Well, since numerous universities feel that it is deserving of a BSc, have you ever considered you might be wrong?

What do you think nurses do for a living? Make beds and mop brows while batting their eyelashes at the doctors? Give me strength.

I think most people are discussing adult nursing degree on here, not midwifery and not mental health nursing which I assume align more closely to the allied HCP degrees.

But you were the one who brought in skills gained after graduation, but presumably pre MSc advanced practice when I specifically stated 'band 5 newly qualified'.

I am on about equivalence, I could do a nursing degree blindfolded, I'd have to study hard for. physics degree, all things are not equal. Everyone except the nurses know this. If she aced her nursing degree, why the fuck was she not capable to study a science or medical degree? She would not be able for it, you know that and then you moan about wages. You get the wages you are good enough for

You've never done a nursing degree, so whilst i suspect you'd pass the classroom aspect, you'd fail the placements.... so no you wouldn't pass, you'd fail and be told to do an admin role, probably outside of the NHS.

No where have i said my DD is a nurse, she isn't, but she is min Band 5, has a degree and makes a real difference to people who have strokes atm and if you or anyone around you has long term high blood pressure, do your best to get it down.... it can be a horrific condition.

As for the wages you are good enough for... says who? unfortunately, we (you) value an accountant above a Paramedic, saving money/tax is better than keeping your heart going until you reach AE.

But whats really more important?

People used to build bridges and tunnels without a degree too, yet my brother needed a degree to work in Civil Engineering, bastard isn't it?

Yet somehow re assuring when taking the the new Elizabeth line....... you know realising the people who you put your trust in, actually know what they are doing.

You do know that until relatively recently (about ten years I think) universities were running diploma and degree nursing courses and they were different.

Do you think nursing degrees have fewer academic hours than other degrees? Remember you can do a degree at Oxford or Cambridge by studying for 30 weeks a year, nursing students generally do around 42 to 44 weeks a year. They aren't one of the degrees that have 10 hrs a week contact time either.

I'm not a nurse but used to have student nurses working for me, it can be very hard for them to fit in paid work, other students could do far more hours due to shorter hours and longer holidays.

Did Brunel have an engineering degree. I often drive under one of his viaducts and sometimes wonder how stable it is after all these years.

Nursing is a professiom to be proud of - an art in itself. Dumbing it down with some pseudo name for it is doing it a disservice.

Nursing is so different now. There was a time nurses weren't even allowed to hang fluids or give IV antibiotics. The doctors had to come do that. But over time it was decided there were certain tasks that nurses could be trained to do to free up doctors' time. And now some of those tasks have been handed down to HCAs to free up nurses' time. Healthcare is always evolving in response to pressure on the service. Nursing is not a diploma-level job anymore. It is not just a care job anymore. It hasn't been that way for a long time.

Well, yes, but that's mostly because it's more risky to keep a patient with a poor immune system in hospital for the duration of antibiotic treatment.

In 1796 Jenner successfully vaccinated a boy against small pox.
Took the best part of 200 years to completely eradicate it but what an accomplishment.

The Egyptians were doing brain surgery 4000 years ago.

However, I was meaning Isambard Kingdom Brunel of railway fame who wasn't even born in 1793. I think you are referring to his father, did he build railways as well I know he was famous for tunnels e.g. tunnel under the Thames he definitely didn't build the viaduct I drive under.

Yes freeing up nurses and other AHPs to do even more complex work and treatments.

I have a degree in computer science and made a very good living in IT, despite coming into it late... my DD 's degree and work is far harder and stressful than anything i ever had to do.

I can easily see why so many quit the sector.... and thats a worry should any of us fly through a windscreen or have a stroke heart attack etc etc etc ... i doubt we'd be thinking "they should have got a science degree and earnt more money..."

We really do need to re evaluate job and pay structures.

The Egyptians were doing brain surgery 4000 years ago

Wonder what their mortality rate was.

I can't find any statistics for that, I think the evidence was from the skulls so I don't know if they would show if people survived. Impressive though.