Nursing should be re-named?

[SunshinePie]

Was pondering over this recently, is calling “nursing” is a bit old fashioned? You now need a degree to be a nurse, and they often are pretty much doing junior doctor jobs. Calling it something else that recognises it’s academic demands, and also more inclusive to males wanting to work in the field…something like Healthcare Medic / Healthcare Practitioner/ Assistant Medic…. Or similar, you get the idea….

-YABU, it should be kept “nurse”, it’s traditional and has roots in “nursing an infant” ie breastfeeding (that reflects the caring nature)

-YANBU it’s old fashioned, insulting to people with degrees and esp males.

Top of band 5 is around 30k, newly qualified cannot progress for 2 years and not everyone is capable of getting there nor are there the number of higher paid posts for everyone.
Even her band 7 supervisor is only on 35k, years of experience, managerial, huge responsibility.... the pay in the NHS is unsustainable and needs massive reform and thats before we get to carer wages... Carer on £10.50 ph vs working for Tesco on £11 ph... no brainer.

Median grad salaries in 2022 is approx 30k...... and non NHS employers do not tie them down for 2 years either.

@Alexandra2001 band 5 around 30k 2-4 years experience, that sounds normal for most graduates in any discipline? Except if she is 'diagnosing and treating' people - that is called a medical degree. Maybe @Topgub can advise you on that. As a nurse she also does not have to go into the NHS system either.

"Even her band 7 supervisor is only on 35k, years of experience, managerial, huge responsibility.... the pay in the NHS is unsustainable and needs massive reform and thats before we get to carer wages... Carer on £10.50 ph vs working for Tesco on £11 ph... no brainer."

But 35k is a LOT more than 11/hour (which I'm really shocked Tesco pays actually).
Whether it's a fair wage is a different question, but it's clearly not a low wage or even a modest wage.

@Gwenhwyfar I don't really know what your arguing for... low salaries and leave if you don't like it, seems to be your position.

@Alexandra2001 what she earns after a nursing degree is a decent salary for a newly qualified person who has job training within the degree (hence the diploma aspect, and not really a degree). You should rightly be proud of her. But indeed these are the salaries within the NHS, so her career path after initial training is up to her. She doesn't have to be an NHS nurse and she doesn't have o be at band 5 level, it is on her.

"I don't really know what your arguing for... low salaries and leave if you don't like it, seems to be your position."

No, when did I ever say that?
My point is that the salaries are NOT low. They earn more than average and similar to teachers.
I've also said I'm not against nurses being paid more, but I object to the descriptions of them as being poor or being on a low wage. I also think improving conditions and recruiting more nurses might do more than simply raising the salaries if the other problems are still there.

"Not really a degree" what are you on about?

Your attitude of "like it or leave" is why we have millions waiting for treatment and many dying with and of their conditions.

Of course the salaries are low, £13 ph ? thats pathetic for a degree level job, compulsory shifts, charged for parking, pay back loans, 100s of hours of unpaid over time.

Its not just nurses either, its the whole range of AHP's that the NHS (i.e us) relies on too.... nurses are just one aspect.

Fundamentally, the only way to increase retention, is to increase salaries and get more AHP's in the NHS, only then can the management of the NHS improve conditions.
There is also the need to increase salaries for carers in the community, who are leaving in their droves, leading to more patients being stuck in hospital, increasing staff pressures etc etc ....

But it is the hourly wage for a qualified band 5 AHP and its for first 2 years.

Yes agree on Band 7, 40k not 35k my mistake.

Well, bugger me sideways, we best tell the Teachers, Medical Doctors, Dentists, Pharmacists, Physiotherapists, Occupational Therapists etc that their degree’s are also “Not really a degree” if we follow that logic. Or is it only Nurses that should not get ideas above their station and stick to the old “nurses are the handmaidens of doctors” adage?

Also, while we’re on the subject of keeping AHPs in their place, there’s no such thing as “Ambulance Drivers” as you’ve referred to them, don’t call them that, it’s derogatory. They are Paramedics who have largely studied a Paramedic Science degree or qualified prior to this specific qualification, are registered with the Healthcare Professionals Council and are specialists in pre-hospital care. And there are Emergency Care Technicians or Assistants, who work at the same competency level as healthcare assistants or nursing associates depending on their level of training, and provide essential care and support to both their patients and their Paramedic colleagues.

Yes the level of competency required from AHPs as they start in the NHS is quite incredible.
5 months in and my DD is making life changing decisions for her patients as do all AHP's.

If people have your @Gwenhwyfar and @growandhope contempt for AHPs and the NHS, its little wonder we have had such a poor NHS.

I am on about equivalence, I could do a nursing degree blindfolded, I'd have to study hard for. physics degree, all things are not equal. Everyone except the nurses know this. If she aced her nursing degree, why the fuck was she not capable to study a science or medical degree? She would not be able for it, you know that and then you moan about wages. You get the wages you are good enough for.

The skill of nursing is not about the scientific, specialist detail, that is why we have allied healthcare professionals and specialist nurses with further training later in their career.

The skill of nursing lies in caring for multiple patients across a ward or a department simultaneously, juggling all their conflicting needs, triaging, prioritising and liaising with therapies, doctors and family.

I'm a paramedic and I have much more advanced clinical skills than a nurse. On band 5 (newly qualified) we have paramedics intubating, thrombolysing and giving controlled drugs totally autonomously, however if you put me in charge of an entire A&E department I'd exist rapidly via the nearest fire exit.

It is a different skill set not a lesser one. Have some bloody respect.

@EgonSpengler2020 I have respect for people who don't assume they have extra skills than they studied.I'm a paramedic and I have much more advanced clinical skills than a nurse. I presume you have not read the full thread then. I design the controlled drugs you are giving and could still control an a and e, that is not a nursing skill by any means. Triaging by nurses is a known fail point. If you can't manage that is on you alone. Upskill and earn respect.

@growandhope

Sure, sure.

And will you be paying my wages when I get sacked for not doing my job?

This comment has made my day, hilarious.

I'm not sure what you do but Im willing to bet i could do your job 'blindfolded' and that you would run home crying after 1 shift trying to do mine.

You can't even grasp that nurse wages are worse outside the nhs than they are in and are capped at around 45 k if you actually want to keep nursing

@Topgub
no idea what comment you are responding to, crack on...😐

Really, when was the last time you were in A&E or for that note outside, where their are a dozen ambulances waiting often with deteriorating patients onboard, patients collapsing into peri-arrest state in the queue to the reception desk that is winding it's way outside A&E, patients who require specialist transport home, but not hospital stays kicking off as they wheel themselves around A&E for 48 hours as there is no specialist transport available, and 2 helicopters from 2 separate incidents inbound needing to get their patients offloaded into resus.

Please enlighten us all on how you'd so skillfully manage the department, or any section of the department with all your irrelevant experience. Because if you can figure the answer out you will be the saviour of the NHS. Or maybe leave it to the nurses with the relevant knowledge and experience.

@growandhope
Also, since the controlled drug I give is morphine, if you designed it, how old are you?!

"You get the wages you are good enough for"

only on MN! What BS!!

Nurse here, currently in the process of looking for a new job, and after reading some of the comments here I am thoroughly depressed. I didn't realise our profession was held in such contempt. Well, I guess I better look at Tesco lol

@growandhope

All of them. Those mad nursing skills come in handy some times

If she aced her nursing degree, why the fuck was she not capable to study a science or medical degree?

Maybe because she wanted to be a fucking nurse! 🤦🏻‍♀️

My DH chose not to become a doctor because he wanted to be a physio.

FFS.

I am on about equivalence, I could do a nursing degree blindfolded, I'd have to study hard for. physics degree, all things are not equal.

Could you indeed? I strongly suspect someone so unaware of themselves would not even be accepted on the course. Certainly wouldn't pass a clinical placement with that attitude. Nurses are skilled clinicians, not dogsbodies.