Nursing should be re-named?

[SunshinePie]

Was pondering over this recently, is calling “nursing” is a bit old fashioned? You now need a degree to be a nurse, and they often are pretty much doing junior doctor jobs. Calling it something else that recognises it’s academic demands, and also more inclusive to males wanting to work in the field…something like Healthcare Medic / Healthcare Practitioner/ Assistant Medic…. Or similar, you get the idea….

-YABU, it should be kept “nurse”, it’s traditional and has roots in “nursing an infant” ie breastfeeding (that reflects the caring nature)

-YANBU it’s old fashioned, insulting to people with degrees and esp males.

"It is far better paid and has much better hours and conditions and that's before you get started on the holidays"

I always hear teachers say they work long hours now because of the preparation work. The holidays are a benefit, but with the disadvantage of not being able to get any time off for important things during term time. I don't envy them that.

I wouldn't want to shift work, work anti-social hours and bank holidays either. Do nurses who do that get a supplement for it like some other services do? And night work isn't healthy.

"The low rate of pay is also not seperate from the issue of poor morale in the profession - pay is a clear indicator of how your job is valued."

Yet, raising someone's wage is not enough to raise morale if the conditions aren't good. You can't really pay someone enough to make a stressful or depressing job no longer stressful or depressing - you'd just get people going on long term sick leave instead of leaving.

I would be in favour of paying nurses more, by the way, but I don't think it's fair when some people make out they get poverty wages when most of them earn more than the average wage.

"Also, if the pay is fair, why is the profession so desperately short staffed?"

Bad reputation of the profession. We have the impression many nurses are unhappy. Also being on your feet all the time, shift work, etc. More money would help though and bringing back the bursaries I'm sure.

And why are multiple hospitals opening onside food banks for their staff?

This what I don't understand. Why would somebody on over 30k need to use a food bank? The only thing I can think of is that it's a London problem with housing being more expensive there. I could have lived like a queen on 30k when I lived in the UK.
And you say 'hospital staff' - are the foodbanks used by staff other than nurses, HCAs or porters maybe? Other low paid staff?

"I have a relative who is a nurse who left hospital nursing because of the bitchiness on the ward. She hated it."

I know someone who retrained in middle age and was bullied out as well.

"no other profession to we affix the term "male" or "female" before it other than nursing and midwifery"

woman doctor and before that 'lady doctor'

Perplexed - I've seen the uniform and the title issue in other jobs.
Also, I think it happens in many occupations with a majority of women - the minority of men rise to the top. Primary teaching would be an example.

@lameasahorse

I didnt see your figured for averages but teaching pay progresses much quicker than nursing.

No one has said nurses are on poverty wages. Not 1 single person.

(Carers and hca might be, especially the carers on mw)

But that is not the point. The role is worth far more than an average wage.

You see so many comments from people complaining they have had substandard care when they clearly have no clue about what has resulted in that situation.

Thankfully most people I come into contact with appear to be able to understand what the job actually entails and they appreciate how over worked and underpaid nurses are.

I'd love for those saying its a great wage to come and do a shift with me. They wouldn't last an hour, never mind 12.5 overnight.

"I think there are areas of work where people expect the staff still to be all-female such as nursery nurses."

I used to work with nursery nurses and spoke to the person in charge. I never came across a man in that role.
I also don't think I've ever seen a woman digging the street.
We've got a long way to go...

"No one has said nurses are on poverty wages. Not 1 single person."

Not really true. One person mentioned food banks for 'hospital staff' suggesting they were for nurses. Food banks are for poor people.

Its a vicious circle with staffing, we recruit but can only get newly qualified nurses, they leave as we don’t have time or staff to support them, the experienced staff leave due to working conditions and because we always think the grass is greener.

Instead of looking at recruitment and retention we get ‘wellness’ managers and emails telling us to do a Teams yoga session before work or lunchtime mindfulness. When the fuck have ward staff got the time for that? Just empty some more nurses. My day would improve massively if I came on shift to find we were actually staffed appropriately.

I am a specialist respiratory nurse in primary care. I diagnose, plan and initiate treatment, order test etc. My GPS rely on my knowledge and expertise and I know far more than they do in this area. So, you are totally wrong

@Gwenhwyfar

I took that to mean that people were struggling on average wages. Not that they were poverty wages.

If an average wage isn't enough to feed you then we're going badly wrong somewhere

"If an average wage isn't enough to feed you then we're going badly wrong somewhere"

A wage that isn't enough to feed you is a poverty wage though.
Are there really nurses who need food banks and, if so, why?

-YANBU it’s old fashioned, insulting to people with degrees and esp males.

are you one of those insulted male nurses, OP?
YABVU

Couldn't agree more @GreatCuppa

we recruit but can only get newly qualified nurses, they leave as we don’t have time or staff to support them, the experienced staff leave due to working conditions and because we always think the grass is greener.

This is where I am right now. Sitting at around 8 WTE S/N short. Unable to recruit. No solution from management.

Just been allocated 5 NQN who we'll struggle to support.

Its a nightmare.

I sure as shit don't get paid enough to deal with it all.

@Gwenhwyfar

I'm not aware of any nurses using food banks. But I dont live in a 'high cost' area

I saw an article the other week about a police officer using a food bank. I wouldnt describe their wags as poverty wages either

Not enough for the role is not the same as not a good wage

I don't know about on other wards, but in respiratory even adequate staffing levels (i.e. the legal minimum) is woeful. Sure, it's fine if every patient is stable and mentally alert and everyone can walk to the toilet, but all it takes is one patient to deteriorate, then that's that one nurse's time taken up. Not to mention how your ward becomes a dumping ground because there are no beds anywhere else, so then you're trying to manage unfamiliar conditions while trying to stop Mrs White from throwing herself out of bed, while your trachy patients are gurgling, your IVs aren't even made up yet, meds are late, notes? Ha! and your HCA can't even help because she's busy being kicked in the stomach by Mr Jones with dementia who has been stuck on your ward for 3 months repeatedly getting chest infections because social services still haven't found him a place to go.

Then the bed manager strolls through, counts how many staff you have, and says you're fine.

God, I hate that job.

😭

My 3 year old fell and hurt his leg, neighbour was a nurse and had a look, ran her fingers down his leg and said, "I'm pretty sure it's fractured there. Take him to A&E" Doctor said it was nothing and sent us home, went back the next day as he couldn't weight bearing. Xray showed fracture just where she said.

I was feeling terrible for a couple of years, saw the doctor several times and he said I was depressed. Eventually saw the nurse practitioner, she said she thought she knew what it was and did a blood test. She was right, it was hypothyroidism.

Twelve year old DD hit by a car, paramedic said it looked like a break just below the knee. A&E discharged her after xray, said she was making a fuss about nothing and to make her walk. 3 days later we got a call, radiologist had reviewed the xray and she had fracture just below the knee. Went into have it dealt with, one doctor showed me a break on the xray. Saw the Consultant and he showed me a break on the xray. I said it wasn't the break the other doctor showed me, he looked a bit sheepish and then admitted she actually had two breaks they'd missed.

Not sure doctors are always the best at diagnosing things.

Here are some details for those skeptical about hospital food banks for their staff.
nursingnotes.co.uk/news/workforce/hospitals-set-up-food-banks-in-desperate-attempt-to-support-struggling-staff/

I know a single mum with 2 kids, went back to uni to become a nurse when they started school. I think the starting salary for band 5 is about £25,000, not sure what the take home pay would be (I could work it out but don't think it is important to be that accurate) but obviously tax, NI, pension contribution, not sure if student loan payments would start. Then she needs a car due to no public transport running when she is on an early, childcare costs, rent and all the other bills. Not alot left for food.