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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be enjoying the queens platinum jubilee trooping the colour

100 replies

niceaspies · 02/06/2022 11:41

Not a royalist or anything like that but I’m feeling quite emotional watching it! Once in a lifetime thing for most of us I’m sure

With all the awful things going on in the world at the moment this is a welcome distraction, I’m finding it fascinating to watch tbh!

OP posts:
DownNative · 02/06/2022 16:23

JenniferBarkley · 02/06/2022 14:36

I know that the regiment has links to Ireland in the past, and I know it's the regiment's historic informal name for itself. I also know the history of the word Mick as a derogatory term for Irish people in England and I don't think it's appropriate to still use it in this day and age.

It's like people on here insisting "throwing a paddy" is a perfectly fine phrase to use. Just no.

Those are two separate things and the regiment had been calling themselves "the Micks" well before it was used as a derogatory term for a time. They're also known as "Fighting Micks" due to efficiency in combat.

If the Irish and Northern Irish soldiers in the Irish Guards felt it was a problem, they would get rid of it.

Likewise, regiments with a Scottish connection are known as "Jocks":

Bubbly Jocks
Cockney Jocks
The Jocks

The last one is the Scots Guard. A now deceased relative of mine liked to be called Jock rather than his given name. Wasn't in the Scots Guards either.

In keeping with the other Guards regiments above, the Welsh Guards are known as....you guessed it...The Taffs.

And I did know a Welsh soldier who liked to be called Taff - he wasn't in the Welsh Guards.

TheOriginalEmu · 02/06/2022 16:47

DownNative · 02/06/2022 16:23

Those are two separate things and the regiment had been calling themselves "the Micks" well before it was used as a derogatory term for a time. They're also known as "Fighting Micks" due to efficiency in combat.

If the Irish and Northern Irish soldiers in the Irish Guards felt it was a problem, they would get rid of it.

Likewise, regiments with a Scottish connection are known as "Jocks":

Bubbly Jocks
Cockney Jocks
The Jocks

The last one is the Scots Guard. A now deceased relative of mine liked to be called Jock rather than his given name. Wasn't in the Scots Guards either.

In keeping with the other Guards regiments above, the Welsh Guards are known as....you guessed it...The Taffs.

And I did know a Welsh soldier who liked to be called Taff - he wasn't in the Welsh Guards.

Pretty much every welsh soldier I know has been is known as Taff. My only objection to that is that Taffs are from cardiff, the rest of us have different names for our areas.

PurpleButterflyWings · 02/06/2022 17:42

NarcissasMumintheDoghouse · 02/06/2022 12:53

The cringe factor is too deep with me to want to watch it. It seems that we are a deeply immature country to be still holding this sort of ancient, antiquated pageantry, based on military splendour - men on horses who would be as useful as a marshmallow in, say, Ukraine - for someone whose main claim to honour is Not Having Put A Food Wrong. (Except she has, quite a few times.)

And the flyover is an expensive, polluting tradition that I hope Charles will abandon.

ODFOD.

DownNative · 02/06/2022 17:49

4th Royal Irish Dragoons are also known as the Mounted Micks. Its clearly not meant in a derogatory sense and army regiments are very proud of their histories.

Including nicknames.

Ithoughtsummerwascoming · 02/06/2022 17:51

I find the actual trooping part boring.
I like seeing the old uniforms however but I do feel whilst retaining some historical aspects can't they.modernise some of it? The bag pipes were a light relief for god's sake!

To be honest for the amount of crowd's there etc I dont actually feel like they're got to see much royalty?

I also don't understand why Harry and Megan were not allowed on the balcony? It's a family Day??

All in all great pomp though...

I do feel the balancy red could be jazzed up a little?

hashtagjubilee · 02/06/2022 17:52

JenniferBarkley · 02/06/2022 13:51

As someone who isn't British it's absolutely batshit but in quite an enjoyable, harmless way.

As someone who is Irish, the comments about "The Micks" and how that's a tooooootally fine term to use were Shock

I thought this

Porcupineintherough · 02/06/2022 17:56

I think the balcony was decreed to be working royals and direct heirs only. I guess that's neater than "all family except Prince Andrew".

CPL593H · 02/06/2022 18:04

leotardrock · 02/06/2022 14:15

Actually you're the cringe factor someone who doesn't understand that these 'men on horse back' are serving members of the Armed Forces and would actually be a lot of use in any war!

I think if people want their criticisms of "antiquated pageantry" to be taken seriously, they should be more informed. Those men swap the horses for tanks and armoured vehicles, to great effect.

JenniferBarkley · 02/06/2022 20:20

DownNative · 02/06/2022 16:23

Those are two separate things and the regiment had been calling themselves "the Micks" well before it was used as a derogatory term for a time. They're also known as "Fighting Micks" due to efficiency in combat.

If the Irish and Northern Irish soldiers in the Irish Guards felt it was a problem, they would get rid of it.

Likewise, regiments with a Scottish connection are known as "Jocks":

Bubbly Jocks
Cockney Jocks
The Jocks

The last one is the Scots Guard. A now deceased relative of mine liked to be called Jock rather than his given name. Wasn't in the Scots Guards either.

In keeping with the other Guards regiments above, the Welsh Guards are known as....you guessed it...The Taffs.

And I did know a Welsh soldier who liked to be called Taff - he wasn't in the Welsh Guards.

Let's imagine that there was a regiment associated with Pakistan, which used the... Obvious shortening. Do you think that would be tolerated, and used liberally on the BBC? Because it's the same thing. I know you have many different views on Ireland to me, but trust me when I say no Irish people I've spoken to today think this is ok, and a brief glance at Irish Twitter (where both British Army and Micks are terms that have been trending today) shows we're not alone.

Blossomtoes · 02/06/2022 20:27

Well, it’s not going anywhere so I guess you’re just going to have to suck it up.

darlingdodo · 02/06/2022 20:54

OK, Jennifer, I suggest you get in touch with the regiment and let them know. I'm sure they'd be happy to change the traditions of a century.

JenniferBarkley · 02/06/2022 21:01

darlingdodo · 02/06/2022 20:54

OK, Jennifer, I suggest you get in touch with the regiment and let them know. I'm sure they'd be happy to change the traditions of a century.

Ah yes, well just because something's traditional that does make it ok. Silly little me.

darlingdodo · 02/06/2022 21:04

So have you contacted them yet?

WildOats5678 · 02/06/2022 21:15

JenniferBarkley · 02/06/2022 21:01

Ah yes, well just because something's traditional that does make it ok. Silly little me.

@JenniferBarkley You seriously do not understand military traditions or ways of life in the slightest.

cakeorwine · 02/06/2022 21:20

You seriously do not understand military traditions or ways of life in the slightest

I am sure that some military traditions and 'ways of life' have changed over the centuries as attitudes change.

darlingdodo · 02/06/2022 21:24

Possibly, but tbh, if the men and women of the regiment are proud of their nomenclature, I think that's all that matters.

JenniferBarkley · 02/06/2022 21:27

WildOats5678 · 02/06/2022 21:15

@JenniferBarkley You seriously do not understand military traditions or ways of life in the slightest.

I'm Irish, I'll let you guess how much interest I have in learning British military traditions and ways of life Grin

People can use whatever language they like behind closed doors. I think it was... illuminating that it was used repeatedly in a broadcast like this.

JenniferBarkley · 02/06/2022 21:28

darlingdodo · 02/06/2022 21:24

Possibly, but tbh, if the men and women of the regiment are proud of their nomenclature, I think that's all that matters.

Again, would that be all that mattered if the regiment were linked too Pakistan and used the usually unacceptable shortening?

cakeorwine · 02/06/2022 21:29

darlingdodo · 02/06/2022 21:24

Possibly, but tbh, if the men and women of the regiment are proud of their nomenclature, I think that's all that matters.

Maybe no one wants to mention it to those in command. Who wants to rock the boat?

darlingdodo · 02/06/2022 21:33

OK, I'm sure the regiment will be happy to take your views on board.

Fizbosshoes · 02/06/2022 21:44

I just watched a few minutes, not sure if I can watch loads of it but I agree it looks fantastic

I watched the programme this eve. Its impressive* but I fast forwarded at least an hour some of it. Love the red arrows.
I thought the queen looked like she enjoyed the fly past more than the guards on horseback.

  • Im Impressed with anyone who can march/ride a horse in synch with others, read music and play and instrument at the same time....while wearing a hat that largely covers their eyes...
DdraigGoch · 02/06/2022 21:49

darlingdodo · 02/06/2022 21:33

OK, I'm sure the regiment will be happy to take your views on board.

Once they've finished laughing, of course.

DdraigGoch · 02/06/2022 21:51

Fizbosshoes · 02/06/2022 21:44

I just watched a few minutes, not sure if I can watch loads of it but I agree it looks fantastic

I watched the programme this eve. Its impressive* but I fast forwarded at least an hour some of it. Love the red arrows.
I thought the queen looked like she enjoyed the fly past more than the guards on horseback.

  • Im Impressed with anyone who can march/ride a horse in synch with others, read music and play and instrument at the same time....while wearing a hat that largely covers their eyes...

And carry on without breaking step while a group of plonkers are being removed from between you by the police.

DownNative · 03/06/2022 07:57

JenniferBarkley · 02/06/2022 20:20

Let's imagine that there was a regiment associated with Pakistan, which used the... Obvious shortening. Do you think that would be tolerated, and used liberally on the BBC? Because it's the same thing. I know you have many different views on Ireland to me, but trust me when I say no Irish people I've spoken to today think this is ok, and a brief glance at Irish Twitter (where both British Army and Micks are terms that have been trending today) shows we're not alone.

The key here is context and the context is very clear that it's a positive thing rather than a negative.

"Up the Micks", "Fighting Micks", "Micks March", "Mounted Micks" and so on cannot be construed as being derogatory in the context they're used within the army.

It's no different to the examples of "Jock" and "Taff" above. If you think there aren't Irish and/or Northern Irish soldiers in the British Army who prefer to be known by "Mick", you'd be wrong.

You can ignore that if you want, but it doesn't change a thing.

Equally, there are plenty of people who get the context and understand it, so don't get offended.

For that reason, I quoted RTÉ as well to highlight that.

As for social media and internet in general, the problem there is a process called context collapse:

"Context collapse "generally occurs when a surfeit of different audiences occupy the same space, and a piece of information intended for one audience finds its way to another" with that new audience's reaction being uncharitable and highly negative for failing to understand the original context."

It's unfortunate and a sign of polarising of communities that some seem determined to ignore the literal, actual context in terms of the Irish Guards leading the Trooping The Colour yesterday.

Their role yesterday was a great honour. How likely do you think it is that anyone was being derogatory in referring to this regiment as "The Micks"? Their own nickname?!

That some took it out of context and, as a result, took offence does not correlate to literal offence here. That's their own problem as a result of context collapse and wanting to respond emotionally.

Most recruits to the Irish Guards from the island of Ireland are from Northern Ireland with most of these from the Protestant community. Of course, some are from the Republic of Ireland as well as from Great Britain. Indeed, some are not from the British Isles.

But all who join the Irish Guards are known as "The Micks".

The Irish Guards and other Irish formed regiments known as prefix "Micks" have no problem with it. It won't be going anywhere.

DownNative · 03/06/2022 08:08

The Republic of Ireland Irish Guards Association for members who've left or are about to leave the regiment has a website:

www.micksroi.com

Context is your friend.