to make other managers uncomfortable?

[wheresmymojo]

Last week my (senior) manager called a team meeting of the managers who report in to him. I am one of those managers.

One of the topics on the agenda was to talk about the results of the latest employee survey. He invited us all to share our honest opinions.

We work at a big company that massively promotes itself as a diverse place to work and it does some really good stuff around race and has some really progressive policies around women (menopause leave, miscarriage leave, etc).

However they are well below average in terms of thinking about disabilities and neurodiversity. I have both of those things and am on the company 'Committee' which has made practically no progress in the last six months.

I shared my opinion that while we're good at some strands of disability we're actually pretty terrible at others, that we have a really long way to go to even be remotely good compared to other big corporates I've worked at and basically shared my disappointment and frustration about the whole thing. I'm quite blunt so I have no doubt that I put this view across very strongly (but professionally, no swearing or shouting or anything).

I am currently going through things related to my disability where the (crap IMO) policies of the company have had a direct and concrete impact on me so my opinion is based in lived experience.

Today in my 121 my manager (the senior manager that called the meeting) told me that while he'd asked us to be honest that I had been too negative about this topic.

That I came across as severely negative (I told him that was because I feel severely negative about this topic, I pointed out positive comments I made on other topics).

He said he thought I might have made some of the other managers uncomfortable by being so negative about it. These are managers with no lived experience of disability or neurodiversity. He said I need a higher EQ as I need to realise some of the other managers may now want to invest less in our working relationship because I'd been so negative about my thoughts on the companies approach to disabilities/neurodiversity.

I've reflected on it and honestly I feel like - he asked for honest opinions and I gave mine. I'm passionate about the topic and very disappointed and I'm not sorry that came across strongly because it's a genuine reflection of how I feel. It was, after all, about how we (as individuals) feel about these topics as employees.

I feel like it isn't my responsibility to dial down how disappointed I am (from the perspective of my real lived experience) to make the other managers feel more comfortable.

I actually feel a bit gaslit (gaslighted?)...

I also don't think he would have had the same conversation if I were from another diversity group (black, gay, Muslim, etc)...

AIBU?

The last sick pay policy sounds illegal? (Not an employment lawyer but even if legal that’s fucking atrocious and discriminatory).

YADNBU. Well done for being honest. The manager was gaslighting and probably also discriminating.

I have ADHD so not quite this bad a scenario

However equally ADHD does have saying things bluntly / directly as a symptom as you tend to say what you think without a filter but I stand by everything I said TBH

My thoughts exactly.

Most companies are like this. Senior managers at my workplace talk about d and I until our ears explode, but when it comes to actually doing something… not so much. I have seen a promotion opp go to someone else when it should really have gone to the person w the protected characteristics, as they had the right skills and experience. God forbid we should allow a Black woman a promotion. I challenged that manager and they said, ‘oh yeah, I forgot about her’. I wonder what the point is sometimes.

For many senior people it is about saying the right thing and crucially being seen to say the right thing. Who cares what they do in practice?

Very disappointing for those employees who hear all the talk about D&I, but experience none of it on the ground.

Well done for standing up for people, OP. I tried the same but was sacked. Hope things go better for you and your colleagues.

I sit on the Committee to try to influence positive change (but it's led very poorly, no-one really takes the lead, no agenda set, no priorities, because it's been ineffective most people have stopped going. Last week it was me and two others when we started out with 20ish people)

It's supposed to be chaired by the DEI team but they seem to heap all the responsibility on the most junior person who can't possibly drive the entire DEI agenda of a massive company and chair five different committees

I put together a document outlining about 40 considerations / areas we could or should be thinking about to help move things along and suggested we pick 3 or 4 initial topics to focus on for the year (but because the Committee has kind of died all progress has died before it even started)

It's worth saying that I was the Chair of a Disability & ND Diversity Committee at another big organisation so I do know my stuff

He said today "I don't think we are anywhere near as bad as you put across, okay the formal stuff isn't there but we're an extremely diverse organisation, you only have to walk around the offices to see that..."

I said "How many visibly disabled people have you seen around the offices?"

Him: Err...awkward pause

(I haven't seen one and statistically that is crazy for the amount of staff we have)

Definitely this.

My friend works for a very high profile company that is lauded as a brilliant place to work.

She brought something very similar to their attention recently and was given a real bollocking from her prick of a boss in private after the group meeting, although he was also rude in public.

She went home and emailed him back her HUGE disappointment and shock at being asked for feedback, and to then get a really nasty dressing down in private for doing so, after also being spoken to rudelyat the meeting.

She has quoted him extensively in her email that she has copied to two relevant directors.

Having read the email and snorted, I would imagine the two directors are balking at what they have read.

She has back up emails of queries of policy where he has also dismissed her.

Apparently HR are now involved, and seriously unimpressed too.

She's 59 and no longer gives a fxxk.

It is a similar theme running through so many conversations of my working friends.

Tolerating bullshit seems to have evapor

You sound awesome OP.
Best of luck whatever you decide.

Ah, good old fashioned tone-policing. It's especially often aimed at women. I guess they got a long way to go in the case of diversity,

When you do any kind of diversity training the first point is to challenge your own beliefs and get used to being out of your comfort zone. I'd respond saying that's kind of the point

Your friend sounds awesome!! The people who like to play the 'lets have an open and honest conversation' game about emotive topics who then get irate when emotions run high deserve to be dressed down for being idiots imo

I think the thing that's really sticking in my craw is that he started this feedback by saying how he was really into EQ and understanding the impact we have on others...

Without any irony that he was about to tell a disabled/ND member of his team off about sharing the honest opinion they were asked for and that he has no direct experience of.

I feel like I need to start a Dilbert type cartoon.

Were you giving ideas about what the company could 'do' about disabilities and ND or were you just complaining that you thought they werent doing enough

Depends if you were being asked as a manager or an individual. If the former, I think you need to act as a positive advocate to influence others and provide a way forward. Assessments of how shit the current set up given of course.

If the latter you can be more emotional, but I think that's more for focus groups and surveys.

I said "How many visibly disabled people have you seen around the offices?"

Ah well done. He knows all the words but he's not saying anything of substance.

Things can't change without discomfort.

She is awesome and she has had a meeting which has established that she really doesn't give a fxxk.

They are squirming, and she is NOT going to blink first.

This episode has confirmed that she would like to be offered retirement, but it will cost them.

She has given HR/directors a taste of a decade of really embarrassing emails that they really don't want going public.

Unsurprisingly if your business is health you really wouldn't want lots of emails dismissive of staff health being brutally dismissed and mocked!

Keeping a paper trail if you work in a poor environment is one of the wisest things any employee can do.

@FictionalCharacter spot on.

People who ask for honest opinions don't usually want them. What they want is for you to tell them what they want to hear. Fall out of line, and you're toast.

The above has just happened to you OP. Is there a managers manager that you can speak to, or perhaps voice your concerns to HR?

I’m old and cynical enough to know that no one wants ‘honest’ feedback unless it’s to say how wonderful they are.
You need to sugarcoat it for people to listen.

I am sorry to say it OP but, yes, YABU. Not for your views, or the way you expressed them, but for the fact that you bought into a big corporate's employee survey shit. Everyone knows that, even when anonymous, critical feedback isn't wanted by the company and if you've voiced it, as well as feeding it back via a survey, you are going to pay the price. Your manager is right that other (shit) managers may be less inclined to work with you, because they see you as "trouble". You either fit the mould within your work environment, or you don't. If you don't/can't, it is time to start looking for a company that's a better fit.

I’m quite blunt so I have no doubt that I put this view across very strongly (but professionally, no swearing or shouting or anything).

this is where you severely got things wrong. Have you not heard of “office politics”?

There’s a time and place to raise concerns and this meeting was likely more of a “box ticking exercise” than an actual forum to bluntly raise issues. As an employee, you need to read the room and read between the lines to see if this is an appropriate channel to strongly raise concerns in. If you needed to raise something there and then, you should have been brief and strategic (aka polite) in what you say as to not come across badly. If you needed more time, you either raise it outside of the meeting or through official channels.

There’s plenty of things I dislike at work and want to change but I know when to keep my mouth shut and raise issues privately, and when to raise things openly in a large meeting.

I can imagine the other attendees were completely put off by you. There’s nothing worse than someone “strongly” putting their view across and bombarding a meeting. They were probably thinking wtf. You don’t need to be “blunt” or “strong” when putting a point across, your tone can come off the wrong way to others and create a bad impression

As an employee, you need to read the room and read between the lines to see if this is an appropriate channel to strongly raise concerns in.

But if you are neurodivergent, that is exactly what you cannot do!

OP slight tangent but you might enjoy watching this clip of a white politician telling off a black politician re her concerns about racism. Apparently complaining about racism is “so rude”.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-racist-dawn-butler-laura-trott-bbc-politics-live-a9383786.html?amp

If you needed to raise something there and then, you should have been brief and strategic (aka polite) in what you say as to not come across badly. If you needed more time, you either raise it outside of the meeting or through official channels.

^ I was wondering if you have had training in management and leadership skills OP as to be an effective influencer and advocate for your direct reports you need political awareness at least.

Tbh the policy on the 5 days paid sick leave in the first year is generally fine no employer no matter the size of the company want to pay staff not to be there, after the first 12 month I would expect i better sick pay policy though, what would have been better is if you voiced your concerns along with ways they could improve that would not cost the company a small fortune, most companies don't really care about staff its all about profit margins