Thinking this is ridiculous on all levels

[holihell]

www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/climate-change/climate-adaptation/cool-spaces

Money & time spent on advising people where to keep cool in London..??! The mayor is seriously promoting this on Twitter right now.. there is no heatwave now or forecast.. why?!

1. are we really at that level of spoon feeding now that people can't be trusted to find a bit of shade or a shop with air con if they feel a bit hot?!
2. do other, truly hotter, cities have these? Would have been useful for Dubai or Florida (if I was thick!!!) but London??
3. what about all the warm places for the homeless.. much rather we point those out
4. who is this actually for?? Just an exercise to tick a bizarre future box or am I missing something here?
5. and why has it made me insanely furious?!

Exactly. These people who are so old and confused that they can’t work out if they need a jumper or not are hardly going to be looking online for places to cool down.
It would have been much better to spend the money on extra social workers and the like who can check up on people occasionally.

Nail, head, on, the, hit @sst1234 ! Bureaucracy to rationalise spend/job etc
Sorry, bored so reareanged words!

I bet a team of overqualified but not overly intelligent consultant type twats in their early 20s have been paid loads of public money for coming up with this sort of advice. So yes, furious.

The danger of climate change isn’t that grannies in Yorkshire will find it a bit uncomfortable when it stops being bloody freezing there, it’s that ecosystems will collapse, the polar caps will melt, coastal cities will drown, half of Africa will starve and the other half go to war about the remaining scarce resources.

In a few years we will need a list of high grounds in London rather than shops with AC.

My daughter has recently started working in airport security. She is generally a positive soul when it comes to her fellow man, but cannot believe how stupid some members of the public can be.
So it's probably not too surprising about the sun thing

But this is an online map showing where to cool off in central London.. hot weather is always forecasted in advance & of course kind people will look out for their elderly neighbours when that's the case. This resource is of no clear value to anyone beyond the boxes it ticks as part of a 'wider govmt project'. It sums up everything that is off kilter in this country. Wasteful, virtue signalling, nannying & alarmist.

I still don’t understand why you think a resource to help people navigate heat waves safely is so wrong. People on this thread have demonstrated that it’s needed, particularly for the elderly and those who care for them. We’ve also pointed out the UK is getting hotter and we will encounter more and more heatwaves.

I’m sure when one is forecast they’ll put it on social media again but you must understand you don’t pay to post on your own account so the expense here is just in someone managing the map, which will come in use.

I bet your the kind of person that’s the first to jump in and say ‘why didn’t they plan for this’ when something goes wrong….

I bet a team of overqualified but not overly intelligent consultant type twats in their early 20s have been paid loads of public money for coming up with this sort of advice. So yes, furious

I might direct you to the daily Mail - you’ll find your people there

I'm sure I read about some US scheme that buses eldery people to malls as it was found they did much better for a few hours in an air conditioned environment that just giving them fans air and having people check on them.

Apparently it gave their bodies a break from the heat stress.

Also cities tend to be hotter than jsut wether temperatures : Why are cities so much hotter than the surrounding areas?

I wonder if it's based on that idea.

Though my DP have air con in car and tend to head to supermarkets as a break from heat.

Fans May Not Be Cool Choice for the Elderly

Air conditioning actually adds to cities overall heat - but does seem to be better option for older people.

Nope, this is a good example of climate change adaptation in action and it will make a difference in real life as the impacts of climate change continue to intensify.

Interestingly I tend to find those who throw around accusations of incompetence tend to either have an poor grasp of the subject they are dismissing or are just trying to be contrary for the sake of some attention. Can't work out which it is for you but I'm sure your response will enlighten us.

But this is an online map showing where to cool off in central London.. hot weather is always forecasted in advance

Heat domes happen very quickly and without a lot of warning. Not like heat waves at all.

& of course kind people will look out for their elderly neighbours when that's the case.

Isolated, vulnerable older people died in their hundreds in the Pacific NW heat dome. Alone in their places, not being checked on.

This resource is of no clear value to anyone beyond the boxes it ticks as part of a 'wider govmt project'.

Our plan is to use these to put up posters in buildings just before something happens so that we can tell the people who live there where is close to them. When we call people to check on them we can say, "there's a park just around the corner, spend a couple of hours there'. Same with our homeless clients. We can tell them where the water fountains are. And if they are outside, they are much safer. Most people die alone in their homes in heat events. Often overnight when no one is watching/checking. If they spent time in a cooler area in the daytime, that may be enough to stave that off.

It sums up everything that is off kilter in this country. Wasteful, virtue signalling, nannying & alarmist.

Your 'reckons' aren't better than actual professionals' actual opinion.

And by the way, even checking isn't great unless you know where to go. By the time someone is in distress they are much more likely to die AND the emergency services would be hours and hours out. In the American/Canadian event paramedics were being diverted from one cardiac arrest to another (leaving the first person to die) because there were so many. You think the NHS would cope with a heat event? No, self-help before distress is the only way to assist.

I think this is a fabulous idea. We know that urban areas are getting hotter, and not just from climate change. The removal of trees in cities causes huge increases in temperatures, plus the number of vehicles/people etc can cause a real danger of overheating for many people.

As a fit and healthy red head, I know I'm prone to dizzy spells when I get hot (and a moderately warm day in London will be enough), so I actively plan days to make sure I can get enough time out of the sun. I'd certainly make use of a map like this - it would have been a godsend when I was pregnant and living in London.

Plus, it's a good way of supporting businesses and encouraging people to visit them and who doesn't want to know where they can fill up a water bottle?

Are you based in London?
I've never heard of a heat dome in London... but accept I may be wrong. My point is when there is very hot weather, the most vulnerable are often not out in it, and in the case of the very elderly, are often not online either. I'd add the percentage of very old, vulnerable people residing in central London where this map covers is very low too and due to built up nature of the city will usually have someone looking out for them. I have nothing against safeguarding all human life from extreme weather, where and when it is necessary and appropriate to do so. I just think the NHS stand a far better chance of saving lives in extreme weather than an online map of cool places. And, as a comms person myself it strikes me that a wet weekend in June is a bizarre time to alert us all to what is essentially a map of common sense.
Oh, and my 'reckons' are just as valuable as any 'professionals' opinions actually - they will have a financial interest/incentive in creating these resources..my taxes are paying for them so I'm questioning them...

I was in Paris a few years ago during a heatwave and this protocol was in place there. You might think it seems very obvious but we were two able-bodied people in a top-floor studio AirBNB without aircon and I was actually getting seriously worried about my own health as I just could NOT cool down, no matter how many fans, cool damp cloths, closed shutters during the day I employed. They had water sprays set up outside which were amazing to cool you quickly and absolutely needed. Maybe it hasn't happened in London yet but when we start to get temperatures in the mid-30s and upwards for days on end everyone will be saying "why weren't there any plans for this...?"

First to admit I don't know an awful lot about climate change, but I accept it is real and action is needed. I'm really not being contrary, I just fail to see the value of this resource. I live in London and work with elderly people (the ones everyone appears to think this is aimed at) - there must be better ways of safeguarding them from hot weather than this.

Fair enough. But do you think this online map would have helped you? Or did you think to yourself, let's get into some shade/find some aircon... I'm all for making plans. Useful ones.

I've never heard of a heat dome in London... but accept I may be wrong.

There wasn't in mainland Europe until there was. There wasn't in Canada until there was. It's future planning for emergencies.

My point is when there is very hot weather, the most vulnerable are often not out in it

Being out in it isn't the issue. People die in their homes in heat events. This map is supposed to show them where they can go OUT to to get cool.

and in the case of the very elderly, are often not online either.

True. But people that work with them will be.

I'd add the percentage of very old, vulnerable people residing in central London where this map covers is very low too and due to built up nature of the city will usually have someone looking out for them.

It goes down to Croydon, where I can assure you a lot of older, poorer, vulnerable people live.

I have nothing against safeguarding all human life from extreme weather, where and when it is necessary and appropriate to do so. I just think the NHS stand a far better chance of saving lives in extreme weather than an online map of cool places.

During heat events the NHS will not cope at all. And if someone is already ill, they may well die. Making sure they don't get sick in the first place, by cooling, is the goal.

And, as a comms person myself it strikes me that a wet weekend in June is a bizarre time to alert us all to what is essentially a map of common sense.

As I said before, the most dangerous time for heat events (and the most fatal) is early in the summer when people aren't expecting it and aren't acclimatised. And it's not common sense because you keep repeating things which are 'common sense' but untrue.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

But do you think this online map would have helped you?

it would absolutely have helped me - I didn’t know where the library/town hall/community centre was and it’s very dangerous to assume that “everybody knows” where things are. There are many many reasons why they wouldn’t know. There’s actually not all that many air conditioned public buildings in Northern Europe so not at all obvious where to go (in a recent hot spell here I was surprised to find Specsavers had aircon here but our local B&M was a fetid cave) and if you’re already hot and weakened from that you don’t want to go traipsing around in exactly that same heat in the hope of finding somewhere that you’re welcome to use.

if you’ve never experienced a real heatwave in a big city you can’t imagine it. I was starting to feel quite panicky and trapped by the oppressive nature of the heat and the inability to escape it.

I just wanted to come back to this thread and say I told you so update. Just to say this is how quickly it goes from cardigans to heatwaves!

You sound very worked up OP

“It sums up everything that is off kilter in this country. Wasteful, virtue signalling, nannying & alarmist.“

I’m really not sure THIS is what I’d use as an example of the above and a prime example of a waste of taxpayers money 😂

Oh look. There’s a heatwave warning. Less than 2 weeks after you said planning for such a thing was ridiculous

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/14/met-office-issues-heat-alert-warning-for-england

Well there's a heatwave now and as someone in London it gets BAKING here because of all the tarmac, concrete and buildings basically insulating the whole place.

When out and about if you start to feel sun sick it can be handy to know where to find air con

What an utterly bizarre thing to be getting pissed off about