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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask for help naming this behavior?

27 replies

sparklins · 31/05/2022 13:58

I had a weird conversation a couple of days ago.
Let me preface this by saying it really helps me writing this out on here as it gives me a bit of insight and helps me remember stuff, I have struggled with minimizing feelings and conversations in my head in the past and it really helps when I can categorize/ name something.

Will try to keep a long story short, my DP(arents) struggle with alcohol, especially my DF - I would say functioning is the best way to describe it but only because they are self-employed/own their own business hence have almost no one to answer to day to day.
They have managed to cause quite a bit of damage around them over the years and as a result I am LC with them and have been for quite a while and as of the past few months my DBro has gone NC after living with them for years after I moved out.

Recently DF called me drunk (whilst at work in their office where clients come in any time) and seemed upset, he kept asking me if I could shine a light on why my DB has gone NC with them as he really doesn't know what he can do to make it right. As gently as I could I said that alcohol was the main reason and that there is no ''one specific event'' just a lot of history over the years. When asked for an example I gave one from a couple of years ago of that I know happened to which he got defensive over ''bringing up the past''. Then got super upset/in tears saying that by the sounds of it he never did anything right.
I had to go and then he called me again an hour or so later, DM was then also on the call and he asked me to repeat what I said then they both proceeded to go on a tirade to which the gist of was that they do not think his reasons are reason enough and that DM/DF had it worse when growing up 'insert copious examples and comparisons here' and yet they never did that to their parents. DM said they always walked on eggshells around DB and he expected the world to fall at his feet and they don't understand how he could be treating them this way. Most of the talking was done by my DM who was getting super worked up and emotional over the way he's been treating them - an example of which was they posted a card with a voucher through his door for his birthday (after he has told them multiple times he wants nothing from them) and he proceeded to drop the voucher back off in their office without as much as a word and leave. The reason he dropped it off at the office was because it is on his way to work but of course in DMs head it was spite. They also said lots of stuff about how difficult it was living with DB like it had anything to do with it (of course they do not recognize that the hostility was caused by their behavior). It was all very ''you did xyz'' - ''well he did 'insert unrelated thing that happened at a completely different time''.

I ended up cutting the call short after fruitlessly trying to explain that just because their boundaries are different that does not nullify his.

So basically they called to ask ''tell us what went wrong for this to happen'' and then got defensive when actually being told what they did, proceeded to minimize and not accept the reasons given as they deemed them ''not bad enough'', got annoyed about bringing up the past yet told stories of their own childhood trauma and making comparisons to his.

If you were to try and sum it up - what would you call this type of behavior?
I would really appreciate any insight.

OP posts:
Gingernaut · 31/05/2022 14:07

They're narcissists who can do no wrong

Tell them they've got it wrong and they'll re-write history to make themselves the 'good guys'.

They will not accept they've done anything wrong, that they're less than perfect parents or that they deserve any 'punishment'

They are so wrapped up in themselves and the booze, they will not hear any criticism

Ponoka7 · 31/05/2022 14:11

There isn't one word for it. They don't respect both of you as individuals who can set their own boundaries. They are in denial about and minimising their own behaviour. Not to upset you but a lot of it sounds like the typical ramblings of addicts. They have each other to carry on the denial and enabling, so it isn't going to end. Which has probably been what's made your brother go NC.

yesthatisdrizzle · 31/05/2022 14:15

'Arseholes' is the word you are looking for. And I think a pp is probably right to mention that they could be narcissists.

Don't bother to try and explain anything like this again, there's no point. They will never acknowledge that they could have been at fault in any way.

Serenity45 · 31/05/2022 14:15

Google DARVO, I think you'll find it matches what's happening here OP. The Relationships board, especially Stately Homes thread, might also be helpful.

It sounds like they are trying to draw you into what is essentially between them and your brother. Given that you're low contact anyway (for very good reason, by the sound of it) I'd be dropping the rope. Don't engage with them about this, don't try to justify your brother's decisions as it just gives them more ammunition to explain why he's 'wrong'. Fuck that, it's nothing to do with you and I imagine your emotional energy would be far better used elsewhere...

WallaceinAnderland · 31/05/2022 14:16

Drunk

LadyEloise1 · 31/05/2022 14:23

You can't reason with drunk stupid.

When you know they are sober, explain to them that they rang you to find out why your db went no contact but when they didn't like your reply they argued with you.
Tell them that their alcohol problems are apparent to all and they need to get help.

NellNorth · 31/05/2022 14:26

The key word to describe that behaviour is “unchangeable”. My parents are exactly the same. My sister is low contact with them and all I get is “What have we done to deserve this?”, but they go mad if you actually spell out the reasons. I have peace in the situation by having very low expectations of them, and know that engaging in any debate is utterly futile, so I NEVER get involved.
I am now sober, an ex heavy drinker. I would certainly refuse any conversation with a drunk person. If you can be bothered to pursue it, insist that they be 1. Sober and 2. Not hungover, before any conversation takes place. They’ll probably never meet both conditions 🤷‍♀️

NarcissasMumintheDoghouse · 31/05/2022 14:32

Google "the missing missing reason" and "issendei". A website devoted to the study of parents who disrespect theirDC's boundaries, get asked not to (with reasons given), do it again anyway, repeat repeat until the DC goes NC. Then they complain that they don't know what they've done to be cut off.
Your parents are doing this.

sparklins · 31/05/2022 16:10

Thank you to everyone that took their time to reply I will look up the phrases mentioned.
Regarding the posters mentioning not to engage when they are drunk, I rarely see them/speak to them when they are drunk as they try their best to hide it from me. It might sound a bit odd but I quite honestly don't mind spending 30 mins on the phone to get a better idea of their state of mind/ where they are at as I sometimes feel they try to lull me into a false sense of security and pretend everything is fine or they are on the mend and I start doubting myself, so this is a good reminder that they are not.

OP posts:
sparklins · 31/05/2022 16:13

Ponoka7 · 31/05/2022 14:11

There isn't one word for it. They don't respect both of you as individuals who can set their own boundaries. They are in denial about and minimising their own behaviour. Not to upset you but a lot of it sounds like the typical ramblings of addicts. They have each other to carry on the denial and enabling, so it isn't going to end. Which has probably been what's made your brother go NC.

They definitely do have each other and they seem to fuel each others convictions and give each other pardons/excuses so to speak.

My DF is definitely worse for the drink. DM always focuses on how stuff makes HER feel or how SHE sees it - which my DF takes as gospel as he puts her on a pedestal.

OP posts:
sparklins · 31/05/2022 16:15

NarcissasMumintheDoghouse · 31/05/2022 14:32

Google "the missing missing reason" and "issendei". A website devoted to the study of parents who disrespect theirDC's boundaries, get asked not to (with reasons given), do it again anyway, repeat repeat until the DC goes NC. Then they complain that they don't know what they've done to be cut off.
Your parents are doing this.

I will definitely have to look at that and show my DB - this is basically exactly what happened. When he lived there he had multiple conversations both when they were drunk and sober about their behavior and actions, it was such a horrible toxic household to live in by the sounds of it, and he said lots of times to them if this carries on he will just stop speaking to them.

OP posts:
DoubleDiamond · 31/05/2022 16:20

Lots of words that you could use but one that sprung to my mind was denial. Accepting your explanation would require them to accept that alcohol has had this effect on their lives; as addicts, this is a hard thing for them to do. Their refusal to admit it as a valid reason is a defence mechanism: if your brother's unreasonable than the drink isn't to blame.

You have been very brave in being honest with them and I hope that they can move forwards from this.

Littleorangeflowers · 31/05/2022 16:20

Deflection

Wolfiefan · 31/05/2022 16:23

Unacceptable. I would refuse to discuss anything with a drunk parent contacting me at work. And subjecting me to a tirade? I would hang up. And probably end up no contact.

mathanxiety · 31/05/2022 16:25

I would call it typical alcoholism.

You are never going to get through to them while they will not admit they are alcoholics.

No matter what damage they do, they will never admit it because to do so would be to admit they are a pair of alcoholics and that they are the problem.

Next time they call and are drunk tell them you won't talk to them while they're drunk, and hang up. If they call again, repeat.

Don't get dragged into the drama they are trying to create.

Support your brother.

You and he should do Al Anon for families.

ThinWomansBrain · 31/05/2022 16:29

Drunk.
Less than functioning alcoholics.

Their behaviour suggests little respect for themselves - why expect them to have any for you/your brother?

DoubleDiamond · 31/05/2022 16:32

*Next time they call and are drunk tell them you won't talk to them while they're drunk, and hang up. If they call again, repeat.

Don't get dragged into the drama they are trying to create.

Support your brother.

You and he should do Al Anon for families.*

I agree with all of this.

sparklins · 31/05/2022 16:45

@Wolfiefan I wasn't at work hence decided I will allow a 30min call as it honestly has given me so much insight into their minds in its own way. If the call was inconvenient I would have never stayed on - I would have some time ago but I am long past that point.

Also I wanted to clarify, this is NOT a regular occurrence at all, like I mentioned they usually are on their best behavior when I visit and everything is perfectly fine. This is probably the first instance in 6+ months. In between that we have had perfectly ''normal'' interactions.

OP posts:
sparklins · 31/05/2022 16:52

Thank you @DoubleDiamond they have definitely tried to paint him as the unreasonable one. Well my DM has.

But honestly it's quite good to be validated and your feelings confirmed. Me and my brother had a bit of a laugh about it all actually. It was literally ''what are the reasons'' - ''lists reasons'' - ''not valid! not good enough! we had it worse!'' - ok then send him an official letter saying you do not accept his reasons I'm sure he will change his mind when he gets it! 😂

OP posts:
sparklins · 31/05/2022 16:57

Also another thing they have done.

DF - has given me a story about something that happened between him and DBro but has actually reversed the roles around.
He also has a form of telling me that family members said xyz about me/DB the situation even though I am in regular contact with said family members and know it's not true.

DM - once I made it clear that DBs boundaries cant be invalidated just because she feels like they are not good enough she kind of doubled down and started saying how our DGPs have felt about his recent interactions with him and how they are ''upset'' and ''sad'' about the way he spoke about something and she was saying things like ''how are they supposed to feel'' about his alleged behavior. Again this was about something she took completely out of context and DGPs have most certainly not been upset as again I am in regular contact with them and we have talked about this situation extensively.
Not sure what she was trying to achieve by saying that and trying to play on my feelings.

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 31/05/2022 17:29

They called you at work to discuss this. Not appropriate.
They berated you. Unacceptable.
You need to reevaluate your boundaries. Alcoholics can mess with your ability to know what is ok and what is not.
You don’t sound like you have anything to gain from maintaining contact. I can see why others have gone NC.

TheWayoftheLeaf · 31/05/2022 19:05

They're alcoholics who don't see that because they put up with bad things doesn't mean their child has to as well.

The word is: troubled, difficult, addicted.

TheWayoftheLeaf · 31/05/2022 19:06

Gingernaut · 31/05/2022 14:07

They're narcissists who can do no wrong

Tell them they've got it wrong and they'll re-write history to make themselves the 'good guys'.

They will not accept they've done anything wrong, that they're less than perfect parents or that they deserve any 'punishment'

They are so wrapped up in themselves and the booze, they will not hear any criticism

I don't think they're narcs. I think they see it as tit for tat rather than recognising that he's within his rights to say no more tat.

FOJN · 31/05/2022 19:15

I would call it typical alcoholism.

This, it needs no further analysis. It was pointless for you to try to answer for your brother when they were drunk, it would have saved you a lot of hassle if you'd told them to speak to him about his reasons for NC. I think you need to work on your own boundaries.

FawnDrench · 31/05/2022 19:37

They are in denial about their own behaviour and projecting it all on to your brother, blaming him instead of accepting responsibility for their own actions.

You can't do anything with or for them as they don't want any help or advice and want to maintain the status quo at any cost as alcohol is obviously the focus of their lives, not you or your brother or work or each other.
They won't accept this if you tell them as they just don't want to believe it.

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