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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To assume that other drivers on the road are reasonably able and confident at driving?

122 replies

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 29/05/2022 00:48

I've noticed this a number of times recently. There will be a road that is plenty wide enough for three cars side by side, with one row of parked cars along one side, thus no need for anybody in either direction of traffic to pull over to give way.

However, the person coming the other way will then (unnecessarily) pull over, in order to allow me to continue on my way, sometimes look frightened and often give me the evils for (as they clearly see it) forcing them to wait whilst I take the priority, even when the row of parked cars is on my side - when nobody actually needed to wait at all. They look shocked at the idea that I may have been intending to 'force them' to pull a little nearer to the kerb, when this is just standard driving - no different from naturally moving over to one side when you're walking down the middle of a corridor and you meet somebody walking in the opposite direction.

I can only think that this reaction must come from a point of low confidence in driving or possibly very poor spatial awareness - or maybe some kind of misunderstanding that makes them think it is the law that you cannot have two lines of traffic on a local (without lanes marked out) road if there are parked cars? I always give the benefit of the doubt if space is limited, but anywhere where two adequate drivers would have more than enough room to pass, I wouldn't pull over and wait unnecessarily - any more than I would routinely stop for a green traffic light.

I know the old (wise) adage is that you should always assume that other drivers are idiots; but surely there comes a point where you have to expect that other drivers (unless maybe displaying an L or P plate) are at least reasonably skilled and confident at basic driving? When this happens, I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) that they are OK drivers, whilst I can only suppose that that they are thinking that I am a terrible, dangerous and/or selfish driver! I'm neither an amazing nor rubbish driver: just kind of averagely competent, I reckon; and very courteous and patient.

AIBU?

OP posts:
PinkiOcelot · 29/05/2022 10:10

If this happens to you a lot, then I think the problem is actually you OP. Sounds like you think you own the road!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 29/05/2022 10:14

Thanks for all of your responses - very interesting to see the perspectives on this.

Maybe they think you are a bad driver and don't want you to scrape their car.
I never look at other drivers to the extent that I'd notice such a detailed range of (assumed) emotions.

Yes, as I said, they might think that’s a possibility, although they have no way of knowing in advance – but this is just one small part of driving. If you’re so worried about bad drivers all the time, the only solution is not to drive at all.

You do know you don't have the priority when the cars are on your side?

Of course I know that when a driver needs to give way, but when a road effectively has three lanes and only one is blocked by parked cars, it’s a moot point.

You don't say what sort of car you drive - if it's a massive 4×4, then it's pretty common that these cars aren't positioned perfectly on the road - which is an issue because they're so big.

Old VW Golf.

If it happens that often to you that you get people looking terrified or giving you evils I think it's you, not them

No, it doesn’t happen that often – just noticed it a few times. Mostly, people will do the sensible thing and not pull over unnecessarily.

If the obstruction is on your side of the road, you should pull over to let oncoming traffic pass. Pretty sure that's in the highway code.

Yes, it is – but how is it actually an obstruction if it doesn’t obstruct the free flow of two-way traffic?

If you're pulling out around parked cars on your side of the road, then you should be courteous - technically you're on the other person's side of the road, and really they have priority to drive however they feel comfortable.

But why do they get (more than) two thirds of the road? I would disagree that drivers are free to take as much road as they like, even if that means making other drivers stop unnecessarily. By extension, what about the people who deliberately park right in the middle of parking spaces, and thus take two of them (but only pay for one); or people who drive in the middle land of an otherwise-empty motorway; or those who believe that wanting the parking space on the public road nearest their house makes it rightfully theirs. The roads are for everybody.

You are then annoyed they have made a different judgement call to you, erring on the side of caution, but you are not held up in any way by this. Righty ho......

No, I never said I was annoyed – just bemused and feeling a bit bad that they think I’m driving discourteously and being arrogant, when I was just assuming average driving skills in using a wide space.

It’s often the confident drivers that cause the problems imo. Besides, you only need to take one test to be able to drive

I for one certainly didn’t pass first time. I disagree that it’s the confident drivers, especially if we’re maybe using ‘confident’ as a byword for ‘competent’. I’d say it’s the over-confident drivers. I’ve also seen very timid drivers cause accidents, not to mention the frustration they cause others behind them, which is not especially a safe situation to be in.

You sound like the type of driver I wait for, sailing along at speed in a big car without thinking about it.

Nope, not me – I always slow right down in my Golf in recognition that the two available ‘lanes’ will be a bit narrower because of the parked cars.

My parents have each been driving for 50 years or so; DF drives like you and DM is cautious. Over those years DF has written off 3 cars, at least 5 minor crashes and bumps, at least 20 scratches or wing mirrors off that I can think of, countless parking tickets, 2 speed awareness courses and a range of points. DM once got a parking ticket that she successfully disputed, and twice had another vehicle bump her, each time proven to not be her fault. Over time, there is a real difference in driving outcomes based on how cautiously you drive.

How can you know how I drive, though? All drivers are different people. How do you define 'cautious' - would you consider somebody using a space in a car park between two already-parked cars as over-confident and would you say that being cautious is finding another space surrounded by empty spaces? Some people's interpretation of 'confident' can equal 'arrogant and dangerous' in the same way that other people's interpretation of 'cautious' can mean 'unsafe and incompetent'.

My main issue is that I don’t like people feeling I’m being discourteous – which I always try to be – when there was simply no need for courtesy at all. If I’d known they lacked confidence and spatial awareness, I would have stopped and waited for them to go (my car is old but I still don't want it trashed either!) – but if you assumed that all drivers always needed two car widths on every road and waited indefinitely, you’d turn all normal roads (wide enough for two-directional traffic and with no cars parked) into effective single track lanes, with huge traffic build-ups everywhere.

I'm guessing you perhaps don't slow down much if at all?

No, of course I slow right down – as an averagely-good driver naturally would when there is less excess road width available.

Just being able to fit 3 cars side by side isn't really good enough if there's only say a foot or so clearance between each car. You need to be about 2 metres from the parked car (in case some pratt starts opening their door or a child/animal walks into the road between parked cars). Likewise a metre between both moving cars and the car adjacent to the pavement/side of road also needs a metre or so clearance from the side of the road.
Driving within inches of parked cars, the pavement or other traffic really isn't allowing enough clearance for unexpected events.

I don’t see how this is realistic, though, when we’re talking about driving at very slow speeds through towns. If you had to allow for the width of parked cars PLUS a wide open door, many roads with parked cars (not the wider ones I’m talking about) would be effectively blocking a road off entirely, with drivers unable to ‘risk’ using the remaining width of the road. You would also never dare to walk down the pavement at similarly slow speeds, in case they might open the door on the other side.

If a child or animal walks into the road, I’m going so slowly that I could easily stop.
When I was learning to drive, I was told to leave plenty of space UNLESS passing somebody. Unfortunately, they don’t tend to make residential roads in this country with two metres of perpetual ‘wastage’ or buffer zone on each side. You wouldn’t even have that much space between lanes on a motorway or dual carriageway, if you’re overtaking a lorry.

I think it is unwise to 'assume' anything when driving.

I agree to a point, but where do you stop with that? The only way to avoid assuming anything about the skills or intentions of other drivers is not to drive at all.

I don't know why this has angered you so much as it doesn't seem to have impeded you or anyone else.

Not everybody comes on to AIBU is a red-faced loon looking for a fight, you know! When did I ever say or suggest that it angered me?! You’re right that it doesn’t impede me, but it does (unnecessarily) impede the other person who, had I known they weren’t confident not to need in excess of two car-widths to pass, I would have pulled over. I don’t like people to mistakenly think me rude when I have just assumed standard driving behaviour and average ability.

Given that you are such a confident driver can we assume you have read and understood the highway code?

If you read my OP, you will see that I explicitly say that I am not ‘such a confident driver’, by which I assume you mean that I’m somehow boasting about how great a driver I am?! The Highway Code is a guide to general driving practices and etiquette – it isn’t a prescriptive detailed manual telling every driver how they must approach every possible driving scenario, every single minute of the day. If it were, you’d need (an ever-expanding) building the size of Buckingham Palace to house a copy.

I am a cautious driver .I would rather wait a few minutes and be safe! There are so many variables, its hard to tell the width of your car sometimes.

In the scenarios I’ve encountered, it’s never anything like a few minutes – maybe 10-15 seconds; but if everybody waited a few minutes at every slightly less than ideal scenario, you’d have huge tailbacks through every town.

I know you might not always appreciate the width of your vehicle if it’s new to you, but cars and small/medium vans don’t always vary all that much in width – it’s mainly height and length that differs more greatly between a smaller and larger vehicle.

I also think that some people on this thread are assuming that drivers are binary – reckless or ultra cautious – when I’m talking about most people who fall in the middle somewhere, who are confident and drive courteously but not timidly.

It sounds like they're giving you 'evils' because it's their right of way and you're bulldozing your way through at 30mph.

Smaller gaps require a lower speed.

I'd be wary of someone like you too.

You’re assuming a lot there that’s either not mentioned in or contrary to the OP. I too would be wary of the driver that you’ve described in your own scenario there.
I don’t do anything like 30mph down most local/residential roads, even when there are no parked cars – although it’s legal to do so, competent driving does require you to consider your surroundings. Of course I reduce speed when approaching a smaller gap – that’s common sense and standard driving behaviour.

So it’s everyone else and not you

No, most of the drivers I encounter use the available space carefully and appropriately in scenarios like I described – it’s just the relatively small number who seem to greatly lack confidence.

Again, I’m not looking for a fight. It isn’t obligatory for AIBU to be a bear-pit! I’m interested in seeing the variety of responses and perspectives on this, but some people do seem to be changing what I wrote to fit their preferred narrative of somebody, before tearing them down according to that imagined narrative!

OP posts:
girlmom21 · 29/05/2022 10:18

I would disagree that drivers are free to take as much road as they like, even if that means making other drivers stop unnecessarily.

Unless it's you, then it's fine and you can take up as much room as possible and expect everyone else to squeeze past?

Nothing you have said has convinced me you're right here.

crimsonlake · 29/05/2022 10:18

If you are forcing or expecting other drivers to pull over a bit so you can both pass parked cars then you are in the wrong. I live on such a road and know the damage reckless drivers cause to wing mirrors when they insist on passing instead of pulling over and waiting a couple of seconds.
I should not have to pull over slightly to allow to allow the oncoming car coming towards me enough space to pass whilst narrowly avoiding my wing mirror and the one of the parked car. This is selfish driving.

coffeecupsandfairylights · 29/05/2022 10:21

how is it actually an obstruction if it doesn’t obstruct the free flow of two-way traffic?

Because, where possible, you should be a decent gap between yourself and the parked cars in case someone opens their door without looking, or a child runs out into the road. It gives you more chance to stop and avoid any danger.

Technically there might be enough room for two cars to pass, but that doesn't necessarily mean that two cars can actually pass safely.

As an example, there are lots of roads here where you can fit two cars, but it wouldn't be advisable as it then means someone has to drive through a pot hole and risk their tyres, or they have to creep along right next to the parked cars and risk hitting a wing mirror.

There are also roads that should be wide enough, but where I've had a few near misses due to other people's stupidity, so it's left me a lot more cautious. I'd rather wait a few seconds than risk damaging my car and being left with an expensive bill to replace a wing mirror or something.

coffeecupsandfairylights · 29/05/2022 10:24

If you had to allow for the width of parked cars PLUS a wide open door, many roads with parked cars (not the wider ones I’m talking about) would be effectively blocking a road off entirely, with drivers unable to ‘risk’ using the remaining width of the road. You would also never dare to walk down the pavement at similarly slow speeds, in case they might open the door on the other side.

Of course it's not always possible to avoid driving near to parked cars - I live on a road where cars park along both sides so there's no choice, but it's still sensible to do so where you can, surely?

TheFeistyFeminist · 29/05/2022 10:27

The scenario you describe matches the road I live on. Cars parked on one side, the remaining space being mostly big enough for two average size cars to pass each other. However, there are potholes on one side that locals know about and try to avoid. As a pedestrian, I've been struck by the wing mirror of a passing van because he was scuffing his tyres against the kerb trying to make progress in too small a gap. I was walking my child to school at the time. Enormous articulated lorries and heavy plant trucks come through here, and it is a bus route.

So, sometimes I "make progress" as my driving instructor taught me, and sometimes I wait to allow someone through.

Occasionally I give the other driver a filthy look if I think they could have been further over, or should have waited.

Maybe what you see is me, giving you that look.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 29/05/2022 10:29

Unless it's you, then it's fine and you can take up as much room as possible and expect everyone else to squeeze past?

I'm not talking about anybody having to squeeze past at all. I'm certainly not one of those annoying people who will insist on taking 'their' two metres between them and the parked cars and then force the car coming the other way into the gutter.

If you are forcing or expecting other drivers to pull over a bit so you can both pass parked cars then you are in the wrong. I live on such a road and know the damage reckless drivers cause to wing mirrors when they insist on passing instead of pulling over and waiting a couple of seconds.
I should not have to pull over slightly to allow to allow the oncoming car coming towards me enough space to pass whilst narrowly avoiding my wing mirror and the one of the parked car. This is selfish driving.

I would agree with you in that scenario, but it isn't what I'm talking about - if it were a case of wing mirrors being at risk, I wouldn't consider it wide enough for two cars and I would wait.

I also find it when I have already started to proceed past the line of parked cars on my side, leaving a small but adequate gap between me and them, so that an oncoming driver in the opposite direction - who is not yet near the line of parked cars - can still continue on their way - so effectively, they would have been 'forcing' me to pull over, had I not already done so in anticipation of accommodating them; but sometimes, they appear to think that I (and any cars behind me) should have known that they would need/want more than two car widths and thus waited for them forever.

OP posts:
DonnieDark · 29/05/2022 10:34

A few weeks back I was stuck down a road being blocked by a lorry, who had basically stopped really close to a car parked on the other side of the road, leaving a small diagonal gap with no room for manoeuvre.

I asked him to pull forward a tiny amount after trying to get through and he told me 'everyone else got through'.

My car is low and wide and I couldn't see properly. Had I driven through I would've scratched my car and taken off my wing mirror, so obviously I wasn't going to try.

I posted in my local FB group about it and got told I was a bad driver 🤷

yesterdaytheycame · 29/05/2022 10:44

I'd think the sensible thing to do is assume every other driver is incompetent.

Devotedcatslave · 29/05/2022 10:45

I feel your pain. I have similar issues on a narrow country road I regularly drive down. There is room for two cars to pass, but not a lot to spare. A number of times I've had people stop in the middle of the road and expect me to reverse back round a corner, when they could have just pulled to the side and let me pass. Drives me bonkers!

2pinkginsplease · 29/05/2022 12:20

Joystir59 · 29/05/2022 06:36

If the obstruction is on your side of the road, you should pull over to let oncoming traffic pass. Pretty sure that's in the highway code.

Totally agree, I hate when I have the right of way as my side of the road is clear and the car coming the other way juts out and carry’s on. I will stop then as if they are as careless to just drive when it’s not their right of way i then think they aren’t the best of drivers meaning my car may get scratched due to their carelessness.

riesenrad · 29/05/2022 12:26

I think the examples you give apply to more than just driving OP. I am often walking along and someone stands to one side to let me by. It irritates me because I think there's plenty of room for both of us. It could be a covid hangover, of course.

And then of course at the other extreme, you get the people who block paths and refuse to move over - it would be nice if everyone were sensible, but they are not.

I agree with pps that it is definitely safer to assume that other drivers are rubbish.

FinallyHere · 29/05/2022 12:33

The line taken in the IAM advanced driving course is that 'everyone else is an idiot about to do something stupid'

Assuming others are focused and sensible is a risk. Up to you whether to take that risk.

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 29/05/2022 12:45

Yanbu. A large number of people should not be on the road. Driving tests should be required every 5 years imo!

ivykaty44 · 29/05/2022 18:27

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum

totally agree with regular retest, no other piece of machinery would an operator get one test and be able to use for life without regular retesting and training on upto date changes

also annual eye tests should be made compulsory if you drive

unfortunately many people have been killed due to drivers not being able to see due to poor vision and no corrective eye wear Report

SarahShorty · 29/05/2022 18:41

DonnieDark · 29/05/2022 10:34

A few weeks back I was stuck down a road being blocked by a lorry, who had basically stopped really close to a car parked on the other side of the road, leaving a small diagonal gap with no room for manoeuvre.

I asked him to pull forward a tiny amount after trying to get through and he told me 'everyone else got through'.

My car is low and wide and I couldn't see properly. Had I driven through I would've scratched my car and taken off my wing mirror, so obviously I wasn't going to try.

I posted in my local FB group about it and got told I was a bad driver 🤷

I've had similar responses in the past. Next time, if you can, just mount the curb (assuming no obstructions) and get by that way. Miserable sods aren't going to be happy regardless of what you do.

IncompleteSenten · 29/05/2022 18:43

YABU.

Assume that everyone else is either a complete idiot who has never even heard of the highway code or is actively trying to kill you and drive accordingly.

cobden28 · 29/05/2022 19:21

Exactly. When I passed my motorbike test over forty years ago. my late Dad - who was an amateur road racer of some repute before I was born - told me 'Remember, everyone on the road is barmy but yourself' In other words, always drive as though you expect everyone else on the road to do stupid things.

Badbadbunny · 29/05/2022 19:52

FinallyHere · 29/05/2022 12:33

The line taken in the IAM advanced driving course is that 'everyone else is an idiot about to do something stupid'

Assuming others are focused and sensible is a risk. Up to you whether to take that risk.

Yep, I'm an advanced motorist and used to voluntarily "observe" to help other drivers prepare for the IAM test. The "treat everyone else as an idiot" tagline is fundamental to the IAM way of driving and something I'd remind the driver at the start of every single observed drive. I also used it as my mantra when I was teaching my own son to drive for his normal test. If you assume everyone else is going to do something stupid, you're prepared for the rare occasion when someone actually does!

FiveShelties · 29/05/2022 19:58

queenMab99 · 29/05/2022 08:16

I think it is unwise to 'assume' anything when driving.

Absolutely, assuming that everyone driving around is
competent sound like a recipe for disaster to me.

Dinotour · 29/05/2022 20:02

Stuff like this I find annoying as well. Not so much in this scenario but invariably those who aren't confident in the dimensions of their car, dont have decent spatial awareness, hesitate and are over careful are more risky to be around in unexpected situations.

Badbadbunny · 29/05/2022 20:13

The most annoying thing I find about other drivers trying to be helpful and expecting thanks are when I'm waiting at a junction, either from a side road to join the main road or on the main road waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic. Inevitably after waiting for a long stream of traffic before I can turn, the last car (it's always the last one), makes a big song and dance about braking, flashing their lights, etc beckoning me to go in front of them. Just why? You're the last sodding car, so you're really not doing me any favours as I could just wait a few seconds and turn in behind you. I purposely don't wave or smile a thanks as they must only be doing it for the thanks - there's no other conceivable reason. Now if someone in the middle of the stream of traffic did it, I'd be eternally grateful and thank them profusely as it would actually make a difference to me to be able to go in front of them, to no detriment to themselves.

Clevs · 29/05/2022 20:24

I drive on blue lights for a living and I can tell you now there are a lot of non-confident drivers on our roads that really don't know how to handle simple situations. Not just when I'm driving on blue lights, but I can spot them a mile off in my own car as well.

MsAdoraBelleDearheartVonLipwig · 29/05/2022 21:40

You need to be about 2 metres from the parked car (in case some pratt starts opening their door or a child/animal walks into the road between parked cars).

I live just off the main road in our village. There’s parked cars all down one side of a blind bend. I drive up and down this road every day for the school run and have met oncoming traffic blindly overtaking the parked cars too many times to mention. They come flying round and then seem surprised that there’s traffic on the other side of the road. They don’t stop, they just keep coming and squeeze through. If anyone ever opens a car door onto this they’ll lose their door.

I never give way. I sit in my lane and ask them where the fuck they think I’m going to go. Sometimes they’ll gesture at me to move or go up the path. I’ve been sworn at a couple of times but they can get to fuck, it’s dangerous and I’m not encouraging their shit driving.

I’ve also had to pay for two wing mirror repairs this year. One broken by an idiot in the middle of the lane, I was actually scraping the hedge, I couldn’t have got any further over. The second I broke on a tree trunk when I had to swerve out of the way of a van careering down the middle of the road. Bastards.