To think maybe they need to make NHS dentist places means tested?

[dameofdilemma]

Reading about the shortage of NHS places and having seen it in real life….is the Govt going to do anything at all about it?

I’m fortunate enough to be able to afford treatment as a private patient but what about those who can’t? Dp is registered as an NHS patient and is even thinking of giving up his place and registering privately (if he knew if would go to someone who needed it).

I’ve had two dentist appointments recently, both times while waiting, a string of people were coming in to ask about NHS places. The local FB pages are full of desperate posts as no one can find an NHS place. They’re facing long, long waits for treatment at hospitals.
Having had agonising tooth pain recently, its debilitating, it effected my ability to sleep, eat and work properly. This isn’t a ‘nice to have’ treatment, its essential.

So maybe the NHS places should be reserved for those on the lowest (or no) incomes? It can’t make any practical sense to offer places to higher earners, if places are so scarce, if all that happens is people are then having to rely on (already overloaded) hospitals or being unable to work etc.

I know we don’t want as two tier system or a shift to private healthcare etc but reading some of the stories of people unable to eat and passing out from dehydration, the status quo clearly isn’t working either.

Is the problem more difficult than that though - that there are some places where there simply aren't any NHS dentists.

And then other places, such as where I live, where there is no problem whatsoever in being able to register with an NHS dentist .

As with so much health care there seems to be that post code lottery . Maybe all dentists should have to take on a certain percentage of NHS patients.

Must be so awful though to live somewhere where there is no affordable dentist practice available - speaking as someone who has had lifelong problems with my teeth- I never realised how lucky I have been to always get the care I needed - and normally with same or next day emergency appointments.

Absolutely, when they are contributing to the exchequer substantially

^ yup!
also I think I'm right I'm saying there's a shortage of dentists. We should be creating more dental school places (inc. graduate entry dentistry)

Something needs to be done, I’ve not been to the dentist for ten years. We are military family so move regularly, never manage to get onto a waiting list even before we move again.

@fyn surely the military should be able to do something about that, clearly its unfair on military families?

Good idea.

There are zero nhs dentist places where I live and it has been like this for months. Everyone I know with money is already private. I know unemployed people who have pulled their own teeth out.
Means testing would make zero difference. It might open up literally a handful of.places but would introduce the concept that dentistry should be private.
I would be very against this.

I haven't got any dentist and haven't been for a long while. I see round here people posting on the Facebook group who are struggling to find a private dentist. No one bothers trying to find an nhs one any more.

Has the end of free funding for NHS courses at university affected this as well?

I've never understood why there's never been an attempt to have the NHS provide dentistry. Its always been privately provided by self employed / employed by a private company then charging back to the NHS for each treatment they do.

Quite rightly, many on the left have fought like mad to stop this model being used in other parts of the NHS, yet we've known it doesn't work for dentistry for decades and there's never been an attempt to fix this.

You could say the last 1/2 years of uni training if they are to be funded by the state, you must work for 5 years in the NHS or pay it back. In the NHS you'd be salaried, preferably working out of NHS owned buildings. The booking of appointments, the wages of reception and nursing staff, the costs of equipment aren't funded by the dentist.

I've just accepted we have to have private treatment for our dcs as their NHS dentist has moved away, the new owners are private only and all the NHS places in our whole town are full. We can afford it, but ffs its ridiculous.

I've never understood why there's never been an attempt to have the NHS provide dentistry. Its always been privately provided by self employed / employed by a private company then charging back to the NHS for each treatment they do.

It's the same model used for GPs and opticians. GP practices are all private businesses.

I would support dentists being employed directly by the NHS as long as there were going to be enough of them for everyone who wants a dentists on the NHS. Remember they don't do anything at all cosmetic. It's all pretty basic healthcare stuff.
But this government does not have the ambition or basic competence to achieve this.

"I've never understood why there's never been an attempt to have the NHS provide dentistry"

Originally they were. Then they began to separate. It worked well. Then in the 90's the budget was well overspent, dentists got less and moved into private care. I suppose we also started to want better looking teeth. All of the dentists in my area have gone private and all are occupying old GP surgeries. As said this government hasn't got the will to change anything.

Nope sorry I pay more than enough NICs for the privilege of being charged ~£25 for a NHS checkup vs £60 privately

The only practice I could find taking on NHS patients is a 12 mile drive away. I'm glad I found it.

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this but what about the women who are being financially abused or have selfish husbands? How do they afford to go private?

My own circumstances are I am too ill to work but cannot claim benefits as my husband earns over the threshold, however he spends his wages on his hobbies so there is nothing left after house bills and food. According to you I would have to go private. Thanks 🙄

Your solution is from a purely selfish pov, which I get, you should be paid properly for what you do however that shouldn't be at the expense of people like me.

I don't have a dentist full stop! We moved and even the private practices are taking on, so no it's clearly not working.

Perhaps we stop wasting money within the NHS using overpriced single suppliers and paying £££ in locums and instead pay staff properly, incentivise them to stay including dentists and maybe make it policy that each practice has to have a big % of NHS patients and bloody well pay them for it. I don't mind paying a little more tax if I actually might benefit for once, but I never sodding do because we are "too well off" except we aren't, really.

I'm a low to middle earner without children and just about live comfortably. Yet again I would be getting the shit end of the stick if NHS dentistry was means tested.

What about the NHS stops spending millions of pounds on sex changes and spends that money on dentists instead 😱

But people on low incomes get their income topped up with universal credit don't they?

Isn't that actually what universal credit is for then?

No , the national health service needs to be for everyone or scrapped. It's funded by those paying NI.

I could just about afford to go privately but then I'd have to make other cut backs and I've cut back enough lately, so I'm not going to.

Some really interesting posts here, v informative to hear from dentists too.

Theres no easy solution but as of today, some people are paying NI for an NHS service they can’t in practice use. Exactly the position lots of posters say they don’t accept.
Its happening already by stealth, as another poster said.

why? do pharmacies have to offer reduced price medicines to everyone?

Ok, seems you all disagree - what’s the alternative?

Give newly qualified dentists an incentive to work in the NHS for a few years by writing off their student loans if they do 10 years NHS work.

Shortage of NHS dentists depends on where you're based - I had a series of private dentists after they started changing the contracts in late 1980's. When one retired a few years ago, I contacted a local dentist (central London) with good reviews, they asked whether I'd prefer to be a private or NHS patient.
Only difference seemed to be a three week wait for my first appointment - never had any problems scheduling appointments since then.
Me being denied NHS dental treatment wouldn't make an iota of differnence to my friend living in Devon, where there ar no Dentists with spaces for provate or NHS patients.
The current system isn't working; training, contracts and obligations of Dentists needs to be reviewed and overhauled, but I don't think that means testing would resolve the problems.

People will get used to paying for dentistry like they pay for eye tests and glasses and will take out insurance

No, I’m pissed off paying £500 for special glasses every 2 years. I don’t want to add dental charges to that. What’s the point in paying national insurance?