To feel sad for the nhs?

[ProclivityForPyrotechnics]

The saddest thing about the cost of living and this wank stain of a government is the pathetically poor staff retainment in the NHS.

It's impossible to keep staff when they get shat on by higher management, patients aren't happy because sends short staffed so levels of complaints are at their highest (don't blame them but it doesn't make for a nice working environment)

Our amazing HCAs when they reach the top of band 2 which they are in theatres where I work, means they top out at £19,1800 a year and there is no scope for any more. At all. I've got staff leaving to work in Aldi or for call centres because they can get more and right now every penny matters.

I'm at a loss, we can't recruit because the pay is so shit so when they leave we probably won't replace them for months if ever and the service will get worst.

They deserve so much more, they do so much it's unbelievable really. There a viral part
Of the nhs and deserve some recognition.

See also nurses. I've got 3 leaving because of the manager I've taken over from, think she ruled with a rod of iron and made people so unhappy. They've said the toxic environment she and 2 other senior staff caused was just too much, but then again 1 is going to work in Lidl, one is becoming a dog walker and 1 has a job at Starbucks because they pay well.

I feel like I've got loads to do to turn around staff morale in my department and that takes time. However there is absolutely nothing I can do about pay!

This is just a rant.

The NHS is a nasty bullying culture and that's that really

@Sqeebling

I've seen a few people say that. Its not my experience but I suppose I could be lucky

Can anything be done about the toxic bullying culture in the nhs? It would help enormously if it were at least a nice place to work

it needs a complete culture shift. Yes everyone is overworked and understaffed but blimey they know it, and often take it out on other staff. As a junior I hated asking for help or making referrals as I’d get roll eyes, huffing and puffing and general “i’ve got enough to do without this” type of thing. I was shouted at and hung up on a few times with “no I can’t deal with it, i’m busy”.

the general blindness to more staff- more efficient. People will do more and take more work on. My job was paid ok but as people left the rest of us picked up the slack, and management used that to not recruit- we ended up with half the staff within 2 years.

it really hit home when I changed to another chronically underfunded, underesourced service. The difference was huge, I could ring a very senior member of staff and they’d take time to explain, or say yes I’ll deal with that without me feeling like I was making their life infinitely worse. I’ve also had senior staff offering mock interviews and to phone and get me work days in other departments should I be looking to advance. I was very junior again initially but part of my job was to attend out of hours management meetings in place of my boss- i opened my mouth and they listened.

I’ve been more senior now for a couple of years and am still surprised that departmental heads will take the time to email and say thank you if a particular job is well done- the nhs mindset is very much you don’t do it for praise or reward, you do it because you’re some sort of altruistic hero and the work is it’s own reward.

Someone gets it! Agree with everything you said.

I am an icu nurse and covid has massively affected staff morale, so much so that I could not work there full time anymore.

I had to take my mental health first and leave and just do bank shifts. Im completely run down. Yes there is toxicity especially from upper management. I do not think that I would ever return full time to work in an NHS icu full time. Pay does not even comprehend to what we are going through on a daily basis.

The difference is these countries see healthcare as essential and its funded to the correct levels, they did not have 18 years of underfunding by Thatcher and then Cameron/May/Johnson

plus Blair’s government who pushed the shift into outsourcing and privatisation through the back door.

in about 2004 the gov ran courses on how staff could form private entities and then recontract themselves back to the NHS.

@BattenbergdowntheHatches

We could improve the nhs without privatisation.

The only people who don't realise that are dogmatic capitalists

Healthcare shouldn't be dependent on profit and loss

The thing that bothers me most about senior management is the lip service to well being and staff care while offering no real solutions to the problems destroying well being.

There is also a problem with the suck it up attitude

It is not only NHS workers who are poorly paid. There are plenty of people suffering as the gap has increased enormously between wages and housing costs.

To pay staff more we need a complete overall of the NHS and/or an increase in task/NI.

If any political party suggested an overall of the NHS the assumption would always be they can only be talking about making cuts.

I hate waste. Why on earth the NHS invites me to book a mammogram by letter. I ring make the appointment with a human being who then sends a letter of confirmation. Why? I've rung and made the appointment. If I was the sort of person who didn't turn up to an appointment I wouldn't turn up whether I've had a letter or not.
Are TVs needed in every waiting area of my local hospital. Do admin staff really need identical workshirts supplied?

I know wages are low but I'm tired of hearing about it. The NHS is about the package as a whole and not just monthly take home pay. Also tired of the discounts businesses offer them. There are plenty of others earning the same and less who pay full price at for example Asda.

Of course HCAs could earn more. They could get the qualifications the rest of us had to do to earn higher salaries. I wouldn't be able to do my job without an MSc and years of experience, I earn more than the unskilled technicians. Not rocket science

Remember this figure is before tax... after everything has been deducted your looking at around £16K.

Well yes, same as all jobs.

NHS workers also get really good pensions and sick pay benefits that lots of other jobs don’t get, so the overall package is pretty good.

And this is a great example of the kind of attitude within the NHS towards lower banded staff. Ignorant, belittling comments.

Just like any profession there are of lowered banded colleagues/band 2's/HCA's who have qualifications and degrees. Sometimes people find themselves in situations due to their circumstances. It's ignorant to suggest they haven't worked hard enough to achieve anything. Qualifications don't always equal higher pay.

When my mum wanted to get back to work she considered a job as a healthcare assistant in a pharmacy. I discouraged her because she'd get paid more in a supermarket and for a heck of a lot less responsibility. In pharmacy she would have had to do lots of extra learning unpaid and in her own time Unless she was wanting to move up into management it's not worth it money wise. We have a huge staff renting crisis for this reason, it's a lot of stress with not much in the way of reward and altruism doesn't pay the bills.

You can't change how much your staff are paid but you can show them they are valued, show clear career progression, stamp out bullying , cliques.

But if they all did that who would be left to do the HCA job?

People often complain about the NHS. People love to complain about something that the vast majority of the population pay less into than they take out.
As a country we need to pay more tax, not just high earners at already high tax rates of 50%+, buy everyone.

People talk about the Nordics a lot here - but forget that everyone contributes to tax there. Equivalent of universal credit is taxed ....

So rather than feeling sad, it just needs honesty from the population - everyone needs to pay more tax, not just the top 20% of earners.

@BattenbergdowntheHatches

Dont those countries also pay much more tax than we do?

Would you be willing to pay those levels of tax and private health insurance?

@Overthebow

Other roles aren't doing the job hca are

I agree. I love my job. But the lack of staff and the acuity of the patients is horrendous. We used to have 4-5 staff on a shift for 16 patients. Now it's 2-3. Really really unsafe. Completely agree about the HCA wage. Ours are amazing. I've joined an agency as I won't do anymore overtime in my own trust until things improve. It's like night and day! I feel
Appreciated.

No, and hca aren’t doing the roles/jobs others are

@Overthebow

Exactly

Which is why hca deserve more pay and the existing 'package'

If other roles don't have the same package people could always apply for hca roles

There's tons available

Yeah I agree, the pay is atrocious, I’m band 7 and get paid £15 for 24 hours oncall, and they wonder why we can’t retain staff, anyone who is intelligent, ambitious and hard working usually realises eventually they can get paid much more and have some semblance of work life balance outside of the NHS. I’m looking to leave ASAP because I’ve had enough of getting paid £30, which is more like £20 after deductions to spend my entire weekend after a full week at work stuck at home waiting to get called in to do more work.