To think that having to have a DBS check to home educate is unfair.

[Grimed]

Baroness Garden is intending all homeschool parents to be DBS checked. I don't think this is fair. What makes Homeschool parents more likely to be abusive? Surely regular checks from the local LA should be enough? If the education system is failing so many children perhaps that is what's needs examining not parents. What's next? All pregnant women get DBS checked?

It's plainly sarcasm because I was agreeing with the pp that the suggestion that a dbs could be useful in digging up those criminal acts which not related in any way to the harm of children cannot be considered useful outside of ridiculous scenarios which I was highlighting in my post. But go ahead, knock yourself out being offended, even when I'm agreeing with you, it's no skin off my nose.

Honestly, a DBS check is no big deal. It’s not especially invasive. There are no interviews or visits by SS or anything like that. They literally just look up your Police records and check that there are no charges for anything that could be a safeguarding issue. So for homeschooling parents the point is to rule out previously noticed extremism/child abuse etc. Parents should also be DBS checked to volunteer at their children’s school or clubs.
In some countries you have to be a qualified teacher to homeschool your children. That makes sense to me too.

Some thought needs to go into who exactly does the DBS check and how cases are handled when an issue does crop up.

Yes she was, and it was determined that home education was a factor that allowed her parents to conceal the abuse

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-10779321.amp

It's a brilliant idea and I can't believe it's not already in place

Dylan Seabridge was another child death where home education was used to conceal matters; he hadn't seen a professional of any description since he was 13 months old. He died of scurvy. SCURVY.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/08/report-on-death-of-boy-with-scurvy-raises-fears-for-home-schooled-children?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

It seems very variable what checks are in place - someone upthread mentioned providing evidence of work done to someone from the local council whereas the Home Ed families I'm aware of haven't been asked to provide anything. Three of those families are doing a superb job with educating and social engagement. Their kids are doing brilliantly.

The fourth is a different story, 10yo who still can't read (the mum still seems to think she'll just pick it up?!) has been kept away from other children, other than a much younger sibling, and hasn't had any opportunity to learn social or other skills because she hasn't been allowed to do things like dance, Brownies, sports, drama, swimming that I see the other Home Ed families doing. She does, however, spend a lot of time sewing and playing with Lego . Yes, I have put in a safeguarding concern thing to the local SS. That alone won't do anything but in conjunction with others it may make a difference.

The first three would easily be able to provide evidence of a well-rounded education. And a check would pick up the fourth example and get some support in for the poor kid.

Jordan Burling was another death of a home educated child who was kept isolated from the world and medical professionals, and it was allowed to happen even though safeguarding concerns were raised by his former school

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-44643037.amp

It was clearly a jokey response to my message about what they'll find in the DBS. They didn't accuse anyone of anything. If anything I took it as a reflection on the ridiculousness of the DBS checks to decide if someone is able to HS

I am absolutely against this, I would go as far to say it is an infringement on human rights. What is next? DBS checks when pregnant? This should only be received with horror. What is this? North Korea?

The majority of home educators are 'known to the LA', and provide a yearly report showing progress and socialisation. I do not have an issue in making this compulsory. Nothing would change for most home educators.

My children go to various home ed groups and afterschool clubs. As does every home Educator I know. They are seen.

School education is in comparison to my children's, sub-par. Working class families accessing a varied education and fantastic critical thinking skills scares the shit out of them. As does parents playing a large part of their children's moral upbringing.

I agree there needs to be checks. Whether the GP or yearly home visits from Education etc. There should be some way of measuring progress and attainment even if not by the traditional curriculum and boundaries.

Unfortunately a DBS check isn't going to save kids like these

The home educators you know aren't the ones people worry about. They're out and about, actively engaging in educational activities. People like you have nothing to worry about.

The home educators people worry about are the ones who use it as a mechanism to isolate their child, provide little or no education, and cause lifelong harm to their child.

It's very sad. But it's wrong to blame home education when concerns had already been raised.

I agree with you. A DBS check is not sufficient on its own, and it only works when someone has been caught before. It does nothing to prevent the first crime. Jimmy Savile would have had a clean DBS check.

Even in schools, it's always coupled with safeguarding training that covers topics like making sure you're never alone in a room with a child.

In person checks, annually at a minimum and preferably more when the child is first home educated, should be compulsory. Spending a day a year with a qualified teacher cannot possibly be construed as breaching anyone's human rights.

DBS checks can be part of it - and no one sensible would think a conviction for something irrelevant (motoring, tax evasion, petty theft as a teenager, or similar) would preclude home education. But preventing those with a history of offences against vulnerable people, or extremism, from home educating children can only be a good thing.

Are you joking? Because safeguarding concerns had already been raised they should never have been allowed to home educate. They used it as a way to hide him from those who could have helped him, and it resulted in his death. If he had stayed in school education then he would have had trusted adults who he could have asked for help, who would have noticed his deterioration, and who could have stepped in more effectively.

Yes of course. But there aren't many home educators like that. There are many other groups/ categories of people in society where a small minority commit crimes. Should they all be checked on by someone? How far should the checks go? How often? For example, Preschoolers are also abused and killed, often when they were already known to SS.

Abuse won't be stopped by DBS checks or occasional home visits. We need to start by making sure children are brought up not to become abusive adults

Also, education and safeguarding are two different things.

Where is the group of now adults who experienced this coming forward?

Where is the evidence that a larger proportion of home educated children have lower literacy, numerousy and generally poorer outcomes than school educated children?

There are far more children who attend traditional educational settings (schools) that suffer abuse than those who are home educated. So on that basis we had better DBS check all parents, on an ongoing basis because as others have pointed out they are valid only up until the point of being issued.

Exactly. So why blame it on home education? I am not familiar with the case in your post, but if concerns had been raised before the child was deregistered the abuse was already happening and action should have been taken while he was still at school. Blame the school instead.

Where is the evidence that a larger proportion of home educated children have lower literacy, numerousy and generally poorer outcomes than school educated children?

We both know there's no data, because home educators have campaigned against even a register of home educated children, let alone monitoring or comparison of outcomes. The authorities don't even know how many home educated children there are, so of course there's no data beyond that.

I do hope, however, that you aren't teaching your children to spell "numerousy"

There are far more children who attend traditional educational settings (schools) that suffer abuse than those who are home educated. So on that basis we had better DBS check all parents, on an ongoing basis because as others have pointed out they are valid only up until the point of being issued

Of course there are more school children suffering abuse at home, because the vast vast majority of children attend school. What people worry about is the percentage of children in each setting who suffer abuse and neglect.

I don't believe that home education in and of itself makes parents more likely to abuse or neglect their children. But for those who do, it provides an excellent way of reducing the chances anyone will notice what's happening.

You misunderstand the impact a DBS check can have. As I've now said several times on this thread, they show up more than sexual and violent crime. Do you really want some jobsworth in a local council deciding whether you are a fit and proper person to educate your children at home (or facilitate their education eg by using something like InterHigh) because you stole some sweets when you were 16? Spent convictions should not show up if they didn't lead to prison sentences, but they do.

There are loads of sanctimonious people who say you shouldn't be allowed to work in a school in such circumstances.

The DBS system is not fit for purpose and needs a thorough overhaul to stop fishing expeditions and to ensure that only information that needs to be disclosed, is disclosed.

Of course there are more school children suffering abuse at home, because the vast vast majority of children attend school. What people worry about is the percentage of children in each setting who suffer abuse and neglect
Well, why are you so concerned about it when there is no data to back this up? Why assume that a high percentage of home educated children suffer abuse and neglect?

Indeed - another "tick box" approach to regulation, and achieves precisely nothing.

What about the non-serious crimes?

And what about rehabilitation? I assume you're one of the ones who says a leopard can't change its spots.

I am not familiar with the case either, but it sounds like issue is with the school. As well as then failing to report, I would like to add to this discussion that schools are not safe.

I believe the statistic is every day in the UK a girl is raped at school.

I know I suffered a lot of sexual harassment at school, although wasn't raped at school.

I think about two years ago there was a story, I think a year or 2 ago about a little girl in primary school and boys held her down and shoved a car or something up her vagina. Now she can't have children when she's older. I have read several posts on mumsnet about in primary school, girls being sexually harassed when changing for PE.

How many suffer bullying resulting in depression, anxiety, self-harm and suicide?

I think this is all pretty horrifying, why are people focusing on home education? Schools are dangerous! The focus should be, why aren't schools safe for children, especially girls? What are they doing? How are they going to make it safe? They are not safeguarding children. Those things cause lifelong damage.

Considering most children go to school and there are significant safeguarding problems, that is where the attention ought to be going.