Is anxiety a disorder

[cofingalthetime]

Don't shoot me, excuse my ignorance, but hear me out... my friend has a dd aged 14, but I'm really worried about both of them. I don't want to say too much as it's too outing, but her dd won't meet anyone, like literally has no friends, they stay in the house literally all the time, she doesnt go to school. We had a chat today and I suggested maybe CBT, or seeing a counsellor but she said all that stuff makes it worse and that she thinks her dd will grow out of it? She said her dd is scared to go out cos of covid. I dunno, I'm worried. I think my friend might be projecting her own fears, and her dd is picking up on them. Is there a disorder where anxiety is this bad? I worry so much for her and her dd

Your friend has a responsibility to seek help for her dd's anxiety and should not be making it worse by enabling her to stay off school and remain indoors etc. The longer it goes on, the harder it will be to resolve.

she is homeschooled has never been to school.
I dont know if they have ever had more than a couple of hours apart now that i think of it

She's setting her up for failure then. Children need to learn to be independent. Being over protective is as bad as being neglected.

she keeps saying 'kids with this disorder' cant do x,y,z. if I ever suggest anything.

You can feel anxious like everyone does from time to time but with some people it can become a disorder when they feel anxious a lot of the time for no reason or where they struggle to function. Your friend needs to get her dd some help.

Anxiety is an emotion that everyone experiences from time to time. Anxiety Disorder is a disorder and happens when the experience of anxiety becomes unmanageable and begins to impact your functioning.

Your friend should be seeking medical care for her dc, imo not doing so is neglectful. Nobody's anxiety has ever got better by their mum making excuses to get them out of situations where the feel anxious.

CBT is a good suggestion.

I don't know what else I can do but I am really worried. Her DD has not had any friends ever. It's very hard to know how much is my friend's own anxiety projecting onto her dd. I just worry for the future. I mean, I said to my friend, how is her dd ever going to make friends if she doesn't 'practise' during these formative years, but she just says 'oh well, she will be fine'. She shuts me down if I mention anything and says I don't understand.

Anxiety is a disorder yes. It can get worse (and better) in teenage years due to puberty/hormones etc.

Your friend definitely does need to get her DD some counselling, CBT etc.

I would serious consider contacting social services.
This potentially comes under the umbrella of 'neglect'.

I know quite a few children who are in a similar position- their anxiety is so bad they can’t function properly. The difference is their parents are fighting hard to get them support. Your friend is being neglectful by not seeking help for her DD.

Exactly. In Summer 2021 I was contacting everyone I could think of trying to get help for my DD. Not just thinking she would 'grow out of it'.

To be fair over the years she has tried a few things, but not for a long while now, a good few years. She said yesterday "they just make things worse". I'm wondering if the counsellor notices that it's more my friend who needs help and so a conflict arises. I've noticed my friend never lets her dd out of her sight too. I think she thinks she's "helping", but even the other day on a zoom call, her dd was there too, (i had suggested she chat to my dd, who is 4 years older, but was willing to talk to her) but my friend didn't let her talk, she just dominated the conversation, and talked for her. I wouldn't even know how to "report" her to Social Services, I mean I'm her friend, it seems like a horrible thing to do to someone.

Dd has anxiety disorder, and my life sounds a bit like your friends. In some situations Dd can't speak, and will look to me to speak for her. She's currently not in school as we're working with camhs, Dr's and school on making small steps that will be successful. A big step like going for a school day would not be possible right now and not being able to do it would put her back.

I called social services myself. They had absolutely zero support to offer. They came out to visit, I asked about groups, support systems, or even a support group for me, because this is exhausting and was told, no don't have anything. I would hope it would be better in other areas, but locally for us they couldn't do anything. I asked if they would call me if something came up that might help us.

Our school is fantastic and so supportive. We've devised a plan so that she's not falling massively behind in her school work, but obviously she is missing out on quite a bit simply by not being in class.

Essentially, there may not be as much support available for your friend as there should be. But if she homeschools, and they've never really been apart, there could be something else in the mix. Could you suggest that her Dd tries joining a club for something she's interested in? Or have them both over for dinner so her Dd can move away from her, but somewhere safe and reassuring for them both?

Thanks this is reassuring in a way. But her dd has never been to a class or a sport, or to school. Never had a hobby. I'm not sure she has ever been out of my friend's presence to be honest, as they have never spent a night apart - my friend says she can't leave her. I think I'd be more comfortable if there was someone helping her. She seems incredibly stressed out (my friend), and seems to have nothing in her life except her dd - her husband seems to just come and go and not have much input, I don't know. Was your dd always anxious @NCForThis2022 . Yesterday my friend made a comment "I've been worried about her since she was 3 weeks old". I mean, are kids born anxious? Forgive my ignorance, but I always thought it was their experiences or how they experienced things that made them anxious - however much another child could experience the same things and not become anxious IUKWIM. It's horrible to say it but I suddenly thought of munchausen by proxy. I'm probably overthinking it.

That's really sad for your friend's daughter. I would probably not give up on suggesting therapy (obviously in a careful way) and say that if she wants her to have a good life in 4 years time, she really needs help to overcome this.

Anxiety in itself is just an emotion, not a disorder but she might well meet the criteria for 'Generalised Anxiety Disorder' or potentially even OCD if she's very anxious about contamination with Covid. She really does need to be helped to challenge herself to do normal things - a CBT therapist would normally get her to write a list of least to most challenging situations (e.g. situations that she avoids) and then help her to work from least to most anxiety provoking. This would build her confidence in her ability to cope. Is there any indication that her DD may have an autistic or developmental disorder or is it just the anxiety that's a problem?

Oh also just to say - yes kids can have anxiety from an early age (there are genetic components to anxiety, as well as environmental components) but getting the right support would help even if she has a very anxious/shy temperament.

Yes you're in a really difficult position and there's not much you can do except what you're already doing. I would think actually family therapy would be more appropriate. Social services will almost certainly not do much, they have bigger fish to fry (violence, etc.). Your friend could ask for the GP to refer to CAMHS (child and adolescent mental health services). Alternatively yes keep trying to speak to the daughter on her own.

In answer to your question, yes there are a number of 'anxiety disorders', including agoraphobia (fear of going out) and generalised anxiety disorder (over-worrying) which sound relevant.

It sounds as if your friend is actually really worried, but perhaps sees her daughter having an anxiety disorder as a personal failing. Perhaps it would help to give her some nonjudgemental information such as from here www.anxietyuk.org.uk/.

The childline website is good and the daughter could contact them herself for support and online counselling if nothing else is working.

@Fulbe With respect you don't know social services won't do much. The child is virtually an emotional prisoner in her own home.

OP. Please contact SS and say you have a child welfare concern. Reporting isn't trying to get anyone into trouble, it is getting help for the child & family.

Yes, there are anxiety disorders, but they can be treated. What you're describing isn't typical at all. It's not common for a teenager to have never been to school because of an anxiety disorder. It's also not common for counselling and CBT to make things worse, and I think you're bang on the money when you say that your friend won't let her daughter get help because she's fully aware that her daughter is not actually unwell.

I definitely think there is something going on with your friend projecting her issues on to her daughter or even an element of Munchausen's-by-proxy in that she is convincing her daughter that she is unwell when she isn't, for the sake of keeping her in the house all the time.

I think I would put in a call to Social Services, however friendly you are with this woman. The fact that someone is a friend doesn't mean you shouldn't take action if you have a genuine concern about their child.

well she didn't send her to school on purpose. Her wording at the time it came up was "I couldn't do that to her". It's difficult to know really. I've never seen her dd outside my friend's presence. I just worry for the future really. I mean it's only a few years until she will be technically an adult. I can see her either living at home for many years as an adult. I wonder will she ever finally 'rebel'. I would kinda love if she did, as I think she is smothered.

My own experience of CAMHS with my own dd was very negative so I'm wary of recommending it. Any 'help' she has gotten for her dd she has paid for.

Goodness. This sounds so extreme. There are home ed groups where your friend could stay with her DD so it's not a good reason to keep her isolated (even leaving aside that of course she should be pushing her DD to do some things independently.) I suffer from anxiety and sympathise but this sounds like it's more about your friend's anxiety than her DD's. I think you might have to report this, I mean I home educate and am very pro home ed but if your friend can't provide her DD the socialisation and help she needs then she needs to seek support with that or put her in school, which SS may be able to discuss with her.

She says she would never 'push' her dd. That she will do it when she is ready.. .but she's 14 now and still not ready so ... I mean, maybe she is right, but for me I've always found coming out of my comfort zone, or being pushed out of it by school, or parents, or whatever, to be helpful in the long run, I think that's an established "thing" isnt it. My friend is adament though and has fallen out with her family over it.

she will never put her in school...

The longer her DD stays isolated the harder it will be for her. Pushing her into a situation where she'd be surrounded by 100 teens and forced to fend for herself obviously won't help but just going out to a restaurant would be a step in the right direction. They could work up to smaller hobby groups or activities together where other people happen to be around. I agree with PPs who have suggested social services so she's on their radar. She can't ask for help herself if she doesn't know life any other way.

agreed. I think as she gets older it's harder to find things like small teenage groups. And I said to my friend, that she may not be able to 'go in with her dd'. Most teenagers that age wouldn't be seen dead with their mother, around their peers... I feel sad for her dd that she knows nothing of the world, or even what it's like to have a friend, or to even have a conversation without her mother being there. It's like her whole world view, she sees it through her mother's eyes, dykwim. Maybe I'll be proven totally wrong and her DD will 'emerge' fully developed. I have my doubts though..