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Angry at long nhs waits

164 replies

glitterwobbles · 22/05/2022 23:33

I get daily headaches and nerve pain in arms and legs.Was diagnosed with cervical myelopathy last summer.
Was referred to another hospital as mine does not have any neurosurgeons and need surgery to prevent it getting worse and possible paralysis.
Have been told that the wait for an appointment is 18 months.
I know that the NHS is struggling after covid. But I have a condition that will get worse and if i had the money could have the surgery privately within weeks.
Just feel let down by NHS and as if the list keeps getting longer as when I was referred it was 10 months. Feel as if I will never get to the top

OP posts:
Havanananana · 23/05/2022 13:33

It would be good to take the NHS out of politics and have cross party long term planning

The Conservative government recently voted down the requirement for the NHS to provide long-term capacity plans.

NHS professionals are well qualified to state what they need. Who else is better placed? For example, if the projected demand for one type of age-related operation is X, then they know that they will need X doctors, X nurses, beds, operating theatres, technical equipment etc. Population figures are readily available - if 10 million people are today aged 40-50, then in 15 years time, these people will be 55-65 and X% are likely to need operation X.

But then the government comes along and says "Well, you can only have half the resources you need, and we want to delay the decision on building new facilities for X" the entirely predictable result is that 15 years down the line, there is only the capacity to treat a fraction of those who need to be treated. Which is where the UK is now, and has been for the last 10 or more years - a situation that will take a generation or more to resolve as more doctors, nurses, hospitals etc. cannot appear by magic overnight; the lead time is 10-20 years.

AchatAVendre · 23/05/2022 13:34

Ahurricaneofjacarandas · 23/05/2022 13:24

It's also lazy just to abandon a sinking ship. Most people agree that a universal healthcare system is the fairest and most efficient way to provide healthcare. However society is so apathetic towards our once world class NHS and so quick to allow the corrupt cespool that is our national needers to just sell it to their mates. We should all be screaming from the rooftop from both the social and the professional sides but we don't and we won't until it's too late

Most people don't? No other country has adopted this model, and most European countries are based on some form of competition between healthcare providers, meaning that consumers can jump ship if one of them under-performs.

The NHS was great back in the day but times have changed and it appears to be a poor model of a healthcare system for modern times.

AntonHeck · 23/05/2022 13:46

Georgeskitchen · 23/05/2022 06:02

The NHS is not underfunded. It's badly managed. Too many overpaid managers and not enough front line staff.The waste is absolutely appalling

This. A health care system that is free at the point of care will always be underfunded. That is to say the demand will always outstrip supply, as there isn't the financial barrier inherent in all supply/demand relationships.

Add to that the layers and layers of wasteful management, plus superfluous workers and forms, and you get the mess which is the current NHS.

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 23/05/2022 13:55

@janj2301
"Until I worked at a GP I thought all the NHS funding issues were to mant managers believe me there is sooo much waste at primary care level, patients don't turn up for appoinmtnt, patients ask for referrals, never pick up the paperwork or never attend the hospital appoinment, patients don't collect paperwork to do their diabetic checks or routine blood tests. Don't attend smear/mamogram/diabetic eye tests/aortic aneursym checks, people seem to ignore ongoing conditions because obviously when they get worse the good old NHS will save them, sorry rant over"

I couldn't agree more.

I worked for 20 years in a Health Speciality in the NHS and it would have been a damn site easier if some patients just did as they were bloody told.

Because the NHS is free - at the point of delivery- they think that means free and they don't appreciate it.

Hence some rarely follow through on advice or any post-operative care, then they have problems and turn up at A & E blaming the clinician.
They don't want to engage with their own health especially with conditions such as diabetes. They continue to smoke, drink and eat rubbish food, then wonder why they get heart disease are obese or have a CVA (stroke).

Try casualty at a weekend when drunks of all ages are filling A & E, being abusive, violent, vomiting all over, messing themselves etc.
People who are ill through no fault of their own have to wait while Police are called to deal with these morons.
Staff are continually put at risk.

I left and went into the private sector and now patients that engage me are prepared to work with me to achieve a positive improvement.

Fulbe · 23/05/2022 13:59

When Labour came into power in 1997 they doubled NHS funding. Since the Conservatives have been in power I've seen constant cuts and struggle. Within the first 6 months, we were having to find half a million pounds to cut across the city in my specialism. They make cuts of 30m, then generously a few months later "increase funding" by 3m. It's despicable and I can't believe anyone who uses the NHS keeps voting them in.

I've been in situations in which colleagues have broken down in tears because they can't even find a chair to sit on at work, so have to sit on the floor. It's dreadful, please vote for something different next time round.

I'm so sorry you're at the receiving end of this but you are really not the only one, and the staff are really not to blame.

Ahurricaneofjacarandas · 23/05/2022 14:01

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 23/05/2022 13:55

@janj2301
"Until I worked at a GP I thought all the NHS funding issues were to mant managers believe me there is sooo much waste at primary care level, patients don't turn up for appoinmtnt, patients ask for referrals, never pick up the paperwork or never attend the hospital appoinment, patients don't collect paperwork to do their diabetic checks or routine blood tests. Don't attend smear/mamogram/diabetic eye tests/aortic aneursym checks, people seem to ignore ongoing conditions because obviously when they get worse the good old NHS will save them, sorry rant over"

I couldn't agree more.

I worked for 20 years in a Health Speciality in the NHS and it would have been a damn site easier if some patients just did as they were bloody told.

Because the NHS is free - at the point of delivery- they think that means free and they don't appreciate it.

Hence some rarely follow through on advice or any post-operative care, then they have problems and turn up at A & E blaming the clinician.
They don't want to engage with their own health especially with conditions such as diabetes. They continue to smoke, drink and eat rubbish food, then wonder why they get heart disease are obese or have a CVA (stroke).

Try casualty at a weekend when drunks of all ages are filling A & E, being abusive, violent, vomiting all over, messing themselves etc.
People who are ill through no fault of their own have to wait while Police are called to deal with these morons.
Staff are continually put at risk.

I left and went into the private sector and now patients that engage me are prepared to work with me to achieve a positive improvement.

There are selfish timewasters and flaky people in every country and I suspect it's a problem with any country that provides any repectable level of healthcare private or not. Blaming all of the NHS's problems on this is just plain daft and gaslighting. It's a tiny hole on the sinking ship IMO and I also work for the NHS

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 23/05/2022 14:09

@Ahurricaneofjacarandas There are selfish timewasters and flaky people in every country and I suspect it's a problem with any country that provides any repectable level of healthcare private or not. Blaming all of the NHS's problems on this is just plain daft and gaslighting. It's a tiny hole on the sinking ship IMO and I also work for the NHS.

So, you actually know nothing about this in other countries, you just 'suspect' it's a problem?
Have you ever worked in Primary Care? Or in A & E ?
No I thought not.

Fulbe · 23/05/2022 14:10

@Thesefeetaremadeforwalking
"I left and went into the private sector and now patients that engage me are prepared to work with me to achieve a positive improvement."

A lot of the things you describe are more to do with social inequality. I'm glad you've found people who fit with what you think patients should be like. I'm also glad that someone like you is no longer working for the NHS.

RosesAndHellebores · 23/05/2022 14:11

I have used the NHS in the 60s (missed a chipped ankle bone) 70s (missed a broken ankle) as an adult in the 80s (missed graves disease), 90s (two dc: one nearly died at birth due to negligence and I.suffered a prolapsed bladder - no availability of grommets), 00s (not much needed by us except my father's GP treated him for three chest infections - he collapsed - with Acute Myeloid Leukaemia), 2010's (zero support available for dd's MH good job we had BUPA and an extra £6k). 2021 - total mismanagement of a back injury.

All the above have been sorted privately - except father; he died 11 months later. The NHS has always been crap regardelss of the political party in power and short on apology and treating people like sentient humans.

The sooner it goes the better.

Alexandra2001 · 23/05/2022 14:18

@RosesAndHellebores on no particular time line... NHS treated my fractured hip and femur brilliantly, cared for my dying mum, patched me up after a horrendous m/c accident as a teenager.... looked after my great aunty for years, provided fantastic support for our homebirth, treated my DD for a suspected liver issue as a baby, when she had a suspected skin cancer, operated pro actively... i won't go on.....

The sooner it is funded and staffed at the correct level the better.

Ahurricaneofjacarandas · 23/05/2022 14:22

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 23/05/2022 14:09

@Ahurricaneofjacarandas There are selfish timewasters and flaky people in every country and I suspect it's a problem with any country that provides any repectable level of healthcare private or not. Blaming all of the NHS's problems on this is just plain daft and gaslighting. It's a tiny hole on the sinking ship IMO and I also work for the NHS.

So, you actually know nothing about this in other countries, you just 'suspect' it's a problem?
Have you ever worked in Primary Care? Or in A & E ?
No I thought not.

I'm a GP actually..... I don't know for sure but I fail to believe it isn't a problem to some degree in other countries and I also know categorically that it isn't what's causing the NHS to fail because... well... it's obvious

Havanananana · 23/05/2022 14:25

A health care system that is free at the point of care will always be underfunded. That is to say the demand will always outstrip supply, as there isn't the financial barrier inherent in all supply/demand relationships.

If this were true then there would also be long waiting times and huge backlogs in the other countries that also have healthcare that is free at the point of delivery, such as most of the EU countries. Nowhere that has universal healthcare has let the situation deteriorate to the point where over 10% of the population is on the waiting list for a hospital appointment.

As for a financial barrier to healthcare and a supply/demand relationship - this is simply the flawed free market thinking being inappropriately applied to healthcare. No individual can know what their healthcare needs will be - today, tomorrow or at any time in the future - but using collective data and socialised healthcare provision should be able to provide for each individual as and when they need the care.

Add to that the layers and layers of wasteful management, plus superfluous workers and forms, and you get the mess which is the current NHS.

Here's my example of "wasteful management". I know a very capable person who is currently the deputy director of nursing in a large health trust. She has an MBA and several years of non-NHS experience in industry, as well as originally training and working as a nurse and having 20 years of NHS experience.

She should be spending her days looking at how to improve the service, planning for the future, managing the nursing staff, working with HR, trainers, facilities etc. to ensure that her Trust attracts, develops and retains the required staff. Instead, because there is a shortage of beds, a shortage of nurses and doctors, a shortage of nursing home places into which patients can be discharged, a lack of coordination between the Trust and social services (who have their own budgets and priorities) she spends all of her time fire-fighting. Dealing with "today's issues" - such as telling a patient that his operation has been cancelled for the third time (and then dealing with the nurse or receptionist who perhaps has had to face the anger and disappointment of the patient and his relatives), trying to find somewhere to send patients who cannot be discharged and so are blocking beds, trying to deal with staff falling ill or resigning from the unrelenting pressure. On top of which she has also had to cope with government directives to cut staffing levels - at a time when the hospital is already short-staffed and overwhelmed.

There is always room for improvement. There are new systems and technologies that can be used to simplify and speed things up. But none of this works if the system itself simply does not have the capacity to meet the demand. And none of this will improve if managers are spending all day fighting fires instead of planning ahead, making improvements - and nor will it improve as long as an ex-banker (Javid) ex-PR executive (Hunt) or ex-economist (Hancock) are in charge of policy, or as long as the heads of the NHS organisations in the UK are beholden to their political masters.

andtheycalledthewindmoriah · 23/05/2022 14:39

OP said angry at NHS wait times and let down by the NHS.

Never said she was angry at doctors or staff.

The NHS is a public agency and under administration from the government.

Being let down by the NHS IS being let down by government.
Being angry at the state of the NHS IS being angry at government.

So many comments trying to redirect OP's anger and it's still pointless because what's the point in anger, directed correctly or not?

What about a solution? Or is it just as long as there are enough people for your liking being angry at the Tories you're happy?

We started paying for private health insurance a few years ago to pre-empt this state of affairs with the NHS. It's being privatised slowly. Once it happens fully insurance will start getting unattainable.

Start seriously looking after yourself too, in every aspect you can. Diet, physical movement, attitude, stress levels, growing food, things that can prevent and ail disease and feed good health in an effort to make medical intervention a last resort.

Anger, ironically, will only aid disease.

andtheycalledthewindmoriah · 23/05/2022 14:41

Havanananana · 23/05/2022 14:25

A health care system that is free at the point of care will always be underfunded. That is to say the demand will always outstrip supply, as there isn't the financial barrier inherent in all supply/demand relationships.

If this were true then there would also be long waiting times and huge backlogs in the other countries that also have healthcare that is free at the point of delivery, such as most of the EU countries. Nowhere that has universal healthcare has let the situation deteriorate to the point where over 10% of the population is on the waiting list for a hospital appointment.

As for a financial barrier to healthcare and a supply/demand relationship - this is simply the flawed free market thinking being inappropriately applied to healthcare. No individual can know what their healthcare needs will be - today, tomorrow or at any time in the future - but using collective data and socialised healthcare provision should be able to provide for each individual as and when they need the care.

Add to that the layers and layers of wasteful management, plus superfluous workers and forms, and you get the mess which is the current NHS.

Here's my example of "wasteful management". I know a very capable person who is currently the deputy director of nursing in a large health trust. She has an MBA and several years of non-NHS experience in industry, as well as originally training and working as a nurse and having 20 years of NHS experience.

She should be spending her days looking at how to improve the service, planning for the future, managing the nursing staff, working with HR, trainers, facilities etc. to ensure that her Trust attracts, develops and retains the required staff. Instead, because there is a shortage of beds, a shortage of nurses and doctors, a shortage of nursing home places into which patients can be discharged, a lack of coordination between the Trust and social services (who have their own budgets and priorities) she spends all of her time fire-fighting. Dealing with "today's issues" - such as telling a patient that his operation has been cancelled for the third time (and then dealing with the nurse or receptionist who perhaps has had to face the anger and disappointment of the patient and his relatives), trying to find somewhere to send patients who cannot be discharged and so are blocking beds, trying to deal with staff falling ill or resigning from the unrelenting pressure. On top of which she has also had to cope with government directives to cut staffing levels - at a time when the hospital is already short-staffed and overwhelmed.

There is always room for improvement. There are new systems and technologies that can be used to simplify and speed things up. But none of this works if the system itself simply does not have the capacity to meet the demand. And none of this will improve if managers are spending all day fighting fires instead of planning ahead, making improvements - and nor will it improve as long as an ex-banker (Javid) ex-PR executive (Hunt) or ex-economist (Hancock) are in charge of policy, or as long as the heads of the NHS organisations in the UK are beholden to their political masters.

European countries have very different standards of living too. They have less stress and encourage natural parenting and do not have the obesity and alcohol problems we do. Many factors, cannot pinpoint one, but their lifestyles does not foster disease like ours, generally do.

There's too many nuances in this argument, but the fact is we will see a privatised health system and the thing to do is take steps to mitigate this fact, but sitting around angry or upset won't do anything except help you remain sick.

BonnesVacances · 23/05/2022 15:50

Havanananana · 23/05/2022 10:04

I live in an EU country, and have lived in two other EU countries.

The "EU model" does NOT usually involve any private insurance element - and there is not one universal "EU model" as each country approaches healthcare provision slightly differently.

My healthcare here is paid for by the State through deductions made from my wages - just like the UK National Insurance deductions. My employer likewise has to pay something similar to NI. Overall I pay no more here than in the UK. The unemployed, those unable to work through sickness or disability, those not working (students, pensioners etc.) have their contributions covered by the State.

The difference between here and the UK is stark when it comes to the delivery of healthcare. Back in the 1960s, the government here (and in many other EU countries) made the conscious decision that since the country was wealthier than it had ever been, the standard of universal healthcare should be as good as that previously only available to those able to pay for it. What this means is:

  • Here there are twice as many doctors per 1,000 population as in the UK;
  • I can walk in to my GP surgery and be seen by my GP at any time - I might have to wait 20 minutes at most;
  • I get an annual check-up "MOT" and a 20-minute follow-up appointment to discuss the 3-page report, review medicines, address any issues etc.;
  • On the one occasion I urgently needed an ambulance it arrived within 10 minutes;
  • For the same incident, I had x-rays, an ultrasound scan and pain relief immediately on arrival at A&E - nobody was waiting;
  • Next morning (a Sunday) the consultant said an operation would be a good option. When I asked when it could happen, he looked puzzled and said "In about an hour - I'll finish the ward round, then I'll operate";
  • The hospital is a training hospital. The student nurses are paid a bursary, are paid for the shifts they work under training, receive all meals on and off duty for €30 a month and have student accommodation provided for a very small fee;
  • At my last "MOT" I mentioned a minor niggle - an irritation rather than anything life-threatening. The GP referred me to a specialist who saw me the following week and then phoned me to say that he could do the required minor operation "on Friday" - i.e. three days later.
  • There are no waiting lists to speak of. At the height of the pandemic there were of course delays, but the hospitals caught up within 3 months. My daughter, a healthcare professional in another EU country, confirms that there too they caught up with the backlogs within a few months.
The UK could have this level of service - it is after all the 5th/6th/7th wealthiest country on the planet. That it doesn't have this is entirely down to political decisions and mismanagement (and some very poor decisions like PFI) from all of the major parties over the last 40 years.

That sounds wonderful! Apologies if you've already been asked as I have read the full thread yet, but what country is that?

I'm so disillusioned with the healthcare my DD has received over the past 6 years. The lack of compassion; she's just a number. The waste of resources and hoops she needs to jump through to access the next level of care that we, and they, already know she needs.

Meanwhile my FIL has been in hospital many times over the past Aw months. They do the same tests each time, find nothing and send him home. Only to repeat the process several months later. No one is looking at the bigger picture, they're just dealing with the current presentation. Such a colossal waste of resources.

Havanananana · 23/05/2022 15:58

European countries have very different standards of living too. They have less stress and encourage natural parenting and do not have the obesity and alcohol problems we do. Many factors, cannot pinpoint one, but their lifestyles does not foster disease like ours, generally do.

One way of reducing stress would be by providing adequate healthcare. If people were not worried about falling ill, being treated within a reasonable time, being able to see a GP, being confident that their parents, children, neighbours, work colleagues etc. would also be getting necessary and timely treatment, then perhaps people would be less stressed. As for lifestyles, obesity and alcohol problems, your point is unclear. All these are factors elsewhere in Europe - the key difference is in how they are treated and the resources available to treat them.

... the fact is we will see a privatised health system and the thing to do is take steps to mitigate this fact, but sitting around angry or upset won't do anything except help you remain sick.

Why is a privatised healthcare system inevitable? Even in European countries with (small c) conservative governments, no political party would dare to propose abolishing the universal healthcare systems that are in place (albeit that the systems differ from country to country). Yet the UK has to accept that this is inevitable? What do you suggest people do to mitigate this? "Work harder?" "Find a better job?" Spend money on healthcare rather than food and housing (as in the USA)? What about changing the government that is hell-bent on a free-market, American-style healthcare service that only serves to direct money into the pockets of big business and leaves most of the population without adequate healthcare?

AchatAVendre · 23/05/2022 16:03

Andtheycalledthewindmoriah Start seriously looking after yourself too, in every aspect you can. Diet, physical movement, attitude, stress levels, growing food, things that can prevent and ail disease and feed good health in an effort to make medical intervention a last resort.

European countries have very different standards of living too. They have less stress and encourage natural parenting and do not have the obesity and alcohol problems we do. Many factors, cannot pinpoint one, but their lifestyles does not foster disease like ours, generally do.

But don't be get osteoarthritis as a normal result of being active, or if you have a condition which can easily be treated by surgery elsewhere (in my case a sharp piece of broken off cartilage lodged in my knee), because you will simply be told in your forties to stop doing weight bearing exercise by that same NHS. Yet is is counter-indicative for osteoarthritis, yes it is a load of bollocks and I can't find any other osteopath who agrees, no I'm not overweight/a smoker/drinker, yes I am paying for the very simple day case surgery privately and no of course it isn't in any shape or form acceptable from a healthcare system!

The NHS really is the most expensive healthcare system in the world for those of us who end up paying twice. What other country has the situation where people end up paying twice?

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 23/05/2022 16:31

@Fulbe
"A lot of the things you describe are more to do with social inequality."

Really?
So let's look at this "Social Inequality".

So a patient comes to see me in the NHS.
I assess them.
I devise a Care Plan and we talk about it. I explain what I can and cannot do for them. I explain what the likely outcomes are if they follow through. I explain what the likely outcomes are if they don't.
I treat them.
I give them an information leaflet.
I give them a contact number, in case they need urgent advice.

This may all take about 40 mins/hour, btw.

I make a follow-up appointment.

At least 10% don't attend this.

Some days/weeks later the poor receptionists are getting irate 'phone calls because these people are 'in agony', they want an immediate appointment. They didn't turn up because they wanted to 'treat it themselves' using some home-made substance/chemical/foodstuff whatever. They couldn't be bothered to follow instructions. etc etc

So when they get no joy from our dept in the form of a 'walk-in' service they wander round to casualty and complain about us causing the problem.

And this is called "Social Inequality" - really ??

BigWoollyJumpers · 23/05/2022 16:48

An interesting, and also a "why the hell weren't we doing this already", system, is one which is being implemented locally.

They identified a large number of individuals who were on 4 or more lists for various issues inc. lifestyle and mental health issues, and they have set up a one stop shop for the most common multiples ie: diabetes, mobility, bloods, dementia, geriatrics. Patients can therefore be seen in one go, at the same place, covering several different disciplines.

BigWoollyJumpers · 23/05/2022 16:51

NB: When looking at 10% of the population on waiting lists..... it isn't. 6 million people may well be on a list somewhere, but many of these, particularly the over 65's are on multiple lists, so it is actually fewer people, but those people have multiple issues.

Locally they are also making sure everyone on their list is still alive!! Note in point, they keep sending my DM a follow up appointment for her heart issues and invitations to book her cataract operation. She had been dead for over a year.

rwalker · 23/05/2022 16:54

Badbadbunny · 23/05/2022 10:23

Nice bit of victim blaming there!

Not wrong though

glitterwobbles · 23/05/2022 16:59

@andtheycalledthewindmoriah
In answer to your post I am not sitting around feeling angry. I am working full time which is very challenging with chronic pain.
I am doing my best to stay healthy and try to walk on my days off to promote my physical and mental wellbeing. My condition has been caused by a combination of a road traffic accident years ago, years of nursing I started in the days when we did lift patients and genetics. I am doing my best and growing veg will not cure me.
I am not angry at the staff on the ground floor. I just feel angry that everything is taking so long.
In the mean time I risk further damage which will cost more to sort out.
I don't have the answers but know that the situation will only get worse. Retention and recruitment is a huge issue for the NHS and I see colleagues increasingly burnt out.

OP posts:
Fulbe · 23/05/2022 18:03

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 23/05/2022 16:31

@Fulbe
"A lot of the things you describe are more to do with social inequality."

Really?
So let's look at this "Social Inequality".

So a patient comes to see me in the NHS.
I assess them.
I devise a Care Plan and we talk about it. I explain what I can and cannot do for them. I explain what the likely outcomes are if they follow through. I explain what the likely outcomes are if they don't.
I treat them.
I give them an information leaflet.
I give them a contact number, in case they need urgent advice.

This may all take about 40 mins/hour, btw.

I make a follow-up appointment.

At least 10% don't attend this.

Some days/weeks later the poor receptionists are getting irate 'phone calls because these people are 'in agony', they want an immediate appointment. They didn't turn up because they wanted to 'treat it themselves' using some home-made substance/chemical/foodstuff whatever. They couldn't be bothered to follow instructions. etc etc

So when they get no joy from our dept in the form of a 'walk-in' service they wander round to casualty and complain about us causing the problem.

And this is called "Social Inequality" - really ??

Here are three references for your information. Honestly, it sounds like you're an educated and intelligent person, I hope this helps you understand some of the wider context.
theconversation.com/englands-aande-crisis-is-fuelled-by-inequality-53338
theconversation.com/weve-known-for-over-a-century-that-our-environment-shapes-our-health-so-why-are-we-still-blaming-unhealthy-lifestyles-145597
theconversation.com/walking-to-school-is-not-enough-to-prevent-obesity-129857

Alexandra2001 · 23/05/2022 18:21

European countries have very different standards of living too. They have less stress and encourage natural parenting and do not have the obesity and alcohol problems we do. Many factors, cannot pinpoint one, but their lifestyles does not foster disease like ours, generally do

Thats down to us and our laws/taxation/govt.

We don't encourage a healthier lifestyle, the car rules as does allowing unlimited fast food outlets and making exercise v expensive.

I ve just come back from cycling in Mallorca, by enlarge the Spanish give you space and are far more patient, despite a packed island and 1000s of cyclists.... one reason is that if you punt off a cyclist, the car driver is liable unless he/she can prove otherwise.

That sort of law would never happen here.

rwalker · 23/05/2022 20:49

Alexandra2001 · 23/05/2022 08:02

@rwalker How do you know what Starmer is interested in or not? How would you stop people resigning and coming back as Locums?

Consultants have always been able to do highly paid private work, maybe if NHS work wasn't so stressful, they'd do more of it?

Evidence please on "massive" fraud in the NHS.

On procurement, the NHS has to deal with the huge numbers of private companies the Tories have introduced - v time consuming and v expensive.

Yes i asked my DD who works in the NHS, if funding is a large factor? she looked at me as if i was mad, anyone who works in our local hospital knows its under funded and that leads directly to under staffing.

Because He's never bangs on about anything other than funding thinking this is the complete answer to it.
You could throw money at it all day it would still be ineficent and wasteful.

The locums
I was on about went from full-time to part time then work the same hours seeing the same patient behind the same desk with the same workload and name there fee they have them over a barrel .

Fraud
the NHS even has there own department to deal google it or failing that there was a panorama program about it get that on Iplayer .Dentist and chemist claim for prescription and work never provided , theft of equipment , agency billing for non existent staff the list goes on

Procurement and pfi contracts disaster

shit inefficient procedures wasting money and resources look at some of the comments on here for examples .

Bad lifestyle choices leading to avoidable health issue adding to the burden

All of the above have nothing to do with funding but are helping bringing the service to it's knees

Yes yes funding I'm puzzled why you asked your DD we all know it's an issue but without sorting the above you are pissing in the wind and might as well set fire to extra funding.