To ask how much vulnerability the men in our lives actually show us?

[IsThisRealLife12]

Sons, fathers, brother, husbands, partners, friends..... How truly comfortable are we with their vulnerability?

Do they feel safe enough to show it?

Do we judge them as weak when they do?

Do we subconsciously discourage it because we want them to fit in with what society perceives to be a 'man'?

Do we encourage them to tell us if they're scared, worried, depressed, struggling?

I'm working through some issues we are having at my Law firm with a male colleague. This has got me thinking.

Yes, I encourage the men in my life to tell me if they're scared or struggling or unhappy. And no, I don't think men are 'weak' if they have problems. I really admire men who are open about that sort of thing.

My husband is getting better at showing me when he’s unhappy or worried- he worries about everything though so I have to coax the latest one out of him sometimes. My dad isn’t great at it; definitely can be a generational issue about men being men and not talking about feelings

I have had major issues with men in workplaces who think there's something wrong with saying "I need help" or "I don't understand". I presume it's ego related so I guess women do it too. They have created amazing messes just because they wouldn't ask for help.

I suspect "showing vulnerability" just means "being normal" in the workplace in this thread, OP?

I don't have different expectations, I just want people to be sensible and professional.

I encourage the men in my life to talk, yes. I've pretty much had to teach DH how to talk about his feelings but he does now (at 45yo!) and he's definitely happier/calmer and closer to me because of it. I've started on adult DSS now, he's recently gone through a horrific break-up and has talked more to me about his feelings than anyone else in his life. I think that's simply because I ask and don't judge his responses, he seems to feel safe being vulnerable with me but it worries me that he bottles everything up with everyone else.

DH showed me a video he'd seen on a football-related FB page recently, it was a series of clips of men being asked who they talk to when they're struggling and pretty much all of them replied with variations on the same answer, 'we're men, we're not supposed to talk about our feelings'. It shocked me that so many men feel like this but DH wasn't remotely surprised.

I am very comfortable with, and encourage, male vulnerability. Pretending there’s nothing wrong causes more problems - both at home / in personal lives and at work. But expectations and society are problematic.

Agree hugely with @EmmaH2022 thst I have also seen some spectacular cock-ups caused by people at work who have tried to struggle on rather than say “I can’t do this” or “I don’t understand”. Both men and women do this but men are mostly socialised to never show weakness in any sphere and so it seems more common.

I guess it depends what kind of vulnerability they are showing and who they show it to.
It's one thing to say I am struggling to do this in regards to a work situation but completely different to open up about their feelings. Men aren't always comfortable talking about their feelings and as a result they know that other men may be very embarrassed or not want to listen to them discuss their feelings. Ideally they would be able to discuss their feelings with their partner however often they are also trying to support their partner or the feelings are about their partner. If they then discuss these feelings with another female there is the added risk of being accused of an emotional affair, crossing the line and separation so much easier to bottle up feelings.

I don’t think it’s gender based to not talk about feelings or not having someone to lean on or trust.

I’m a woman, and I’ve never had that.
And yes, it’s painful.
But in my expirience, no one cares.
So I deal everything on my own, always have.

But my point is: it’s not a man/woman thing and by making it to be something only men experience, you’ll isolate the women who feel and go through the same thing.

But women aren't encouraged not to talk about their feelings, they may not feel they can or they may have nobody they feel they can talk to but they aren't actually encouraged not to.

Recent example we lost my Dad recently nobody said to my daughters look after your Mum, but lots of people said it to my son look after your mum, stay strong for her. As a result he felt he couldn't cry around me, but of course he did need to release those emotions and luckily he did eventually cry rather than those emotions manifesting in a different way.

My partner cried watching the Father Ted documentary.

I'm not British and neither is my DH. My father, brothers and husband are all very comfortable with vulnerability. My dad raised my brothers talking about his feelings and my husband is doing the same with my son.

It is one of the things I find hardest about living here because its very not normal to me that men suppress their emotions. It isn't healthy.

@sweeneytoddsrazor

Well I definetly never got the message it was okey to cry or talk about feelings.

Honestly, your message just proved what I was talking about.
You were of no help, just made it worse.

TooManyAllergies

I can see you’re upset but this isn’t about your individual experience. Of course there are men who speak about their vulnerability and women who are not encouraged to. But overall, on a societal level, men, at least British men are not encouraged to speak about feeling the way women are.

@OlympicProcrastinator

What a dissapointing attitude.

@TooManyAllergies

I am sorry you feel that way, but as a general rule it is unfortunately true. It isn't that women are told its ok to discuss their feelings, its that they are not (usually) told that it is not ok to discuss their feelings.
This is different for men who are (often) actively discouraged from doing so, often from a young age hence we have ridiculous sayings like boys don't cry.

But don’t you think the girls/women who don’t think they can talk about feelings matter?

I just don’t understand why you’re fighting this.

The whole thing sucks, woman or a man.

@TooManyAllergies*

Its not an attitude, it’s an observation of the tone of the thread. You are making this about your personal problems. It’s not.

But don’t you think the girls/women who don’t think they can talk about feelings matter?

Thats not what’s being said. By anyone.

It’s quite well accepted men struggle with this more than women on average though, claiming that isn’t real is a bit odd.

A nasty side effect of toxic masculinity.

Of course it matters but that isn't what this thread is about. The OP was asking specifically about male vulnerability and how comfortable they are and society are for them to show it. On an individual level you will get some men who are comfortable with showing their vulnerability and some women who are not comfortable with showing their vulnerability. Society however is very much more comfortable with women showing their vulnerability than with men showing it.

It is true men (and boys) are not expected to show feelings, may be different in other cultures. It shouldn't be so but they are dealing with the reality they'll still be looked on as weak or effeminate. Lots of people say its OK but really would judge.

OP in answer to your question. Yes I encouraged my DH to discuss his feelings when his dad died. It happened at a time when I had just had a baby and was very unwell. So he just felt that he couldn’t. His ‘role as a man’ in his eyes was to protect me and shield me from his feelings.

We had a situation at work where a man had overstated his past experience to get a job he was completely under qualified for and failed spectacularly, putting the entire business in jeopardy. The woman who took his place completely underestimated herself but asked for support and turned things around. It is a pattern I’ve seen played out over the course of my working life many times.

We can do things individually but we are up against societal norms.

There is very clear evidence and studies which prove women will seek help regarding their MH more than men.

And also that men are at a higher risk of suicide.

That's not disputable.

Since learning more about this I have discussed it with my husband. He was absolutly raised with the mindset of being a "man" by a very toxic woman. And unfortunately has experienced a lot of things that would test the very strongest mind.

It’s just awful to begin with and then have the it only effect men on top of that.
And then a third layer when I try to talk about it and being totally dismissed.

Makes it difficult to believe only men suffer, or that it’s worse or something we all should try and fix.

Nobody has said only men suffer.

But you are doing what about ism

Like when people talk about DV and say what about men?

It does affect them. But it mostly affects one sex and that is the one who requires the most assistance at present

More women attempt suicide than men.