To Think the Library Should Let My Daughter Study?

[Charliesunnysky10]

My 15 year old daughter revises for her GCSE's each evening at the local library because she says it's perfectly quiet and she feels 'in the zone'. She shares a bedroom with her 11 year old sister and while they get on ok, I understand she needs a nice big desk space to herself, which is another reason she likes it. It's been working well until tonight when a staff member approached and asked her age. He then told her to leave as only over 16's are allowed in after 7pm. She messaged me asking to be collected early (we arranged 8.30 as a pick up time and I message her when I'm in the car park). Luckily we live a 10 minute drive, but she was tearfully stood outside alone in the car park when I arrived. I know she's not been causing problems as it's not in her nature, and I have an old school friend who works there and said only last weekend when we passed each other that it was lovely to see her each evening busy working and reading. She never mentioned a 7pm cut off, but she might think my daughter is over 16 as she looks and behaves quite maturely. AIBU to complain and ask them to let her have the extra 90 mins each evening? She's 16 in July but her exams will be over by then.

Check with the library management if it really is the policy. It might well be so because of safeguarding rules and/or limited staff numbers after a certain time of day.

The library I work in allows anyone over 8 to stay unaccompanied. But we do close at 5pm and have a rule that there must be a minimum of three staff on the premises and two together in the public areas of the library if there are any customers present.

Why don't you message your friend and ask. Could it be something as a group had hired it and the subject matter meant over 16s only?

At my local library, parents dump their kids there and expect staff to babysit/crowd control them. It's completely wrong. Perhaps the library has this rule to stop them having to be left with unsupervised children? The school should know of somewhere she can safely study!

Definitely ask to see their policy. In writing. I’ve never heard of such a rule. He could be misinterpreting something (or making it up)

Aplogies, that read wrong.

She wasn't worried about the wait in the car park. It was being told to leave. She felt humiliated. It had been a place she felt at home, so to speak.

She already goes straight from getting off the bus from school, which is an hour away with all the stops. Studies 5 - 8.30, but reads for a good chunk of that.

I’d have felt really uncomfortable lying about my age. My impression is OPs daughter may feel the same. I would have been happy to question, want an explanation, but am too much of a rule keeper for my own good CV sometimes.

Suggesting it would have made me feel worse because then I’d think it was my fault I couldn’t study late (because I would say I’m 16) rather than some stupid bureaucracy.

Don’t know where that cv came from.

Yes, I think you're probably right. I work over the road at the shopping centre and we have terrible problems with gangs of kids, ASB, shoplifting. We have wonderful outreach workers trying to engage with them to go to a gym we've built so they can do something positive. But she's alone studying, not harming anyone, and the council (or this guys interpretation of their alleged rules) is doing the reverse to her.

I had this with a theatre which said it was their policy. I asked to see the policy. There wasn’t one.

Yep was just about to come on and say its probably to do with safeguarding. I work in a university library and members of the public can come use the space freely but under 18's have to be accompanied by an adult.

I would have a word with your library friend to see if because she's only a few months off her 16th birthday and she's studying,that a bit of wise discretion can't be used.
As a former library worker, I think it's most likely a safeguarding issue. Many times we have had to try and contact parents because it's closing time and it's not safe for the child to be on the streets in the dark. We always stayed with them.
I'm not talking about teenagers, either. Unfortunately there are some very vulnerable youngsters whose parents wouldn't be concerned if they were still out at 10pm

Even if it was some written rule then surely you would contact your local councillor and complain / draw this to their attention.

Where we are libraries are underused and fighting for survival with public funding - it is crazy to think they would actively turn away those wanting to use their services

You should 100% challenge it and ask to see any policies they claim to be using. Not only will this give your DD a calm, quiet place to study - she sounds wonderful! - but it will also show her that just because someone in authority says something, doesn’t automatically mean she has to believe every word without question (especially if it makes little sense, as this does), and that she is entitled to calmly and assertively request more information.

The “rules are rules and we follow every one of them blindly without question” mindset can be dangerous, especially after the last few years, and it’s never to early for children to learn that they have the right to stand up for themselves in a calm, respectful but assertive manner, or to realise that jobsworths aren’t always right.

Thank you so so much. Loads of really good points and powerful messages. I feel less angry and more informed.

I do think it will be a safeguarding thing. And I'm not sure that will be flexible. Even though she's 55 days off being 16, and only wants an extension of 90 mins.

I would go in and speak to them and see what they say
My local one is only open until 7pm but they are genuinely lovely. They've done everything from witness mortgage paperwork to saving books I might like to making me a brew
Wish they were open later but the ASB locally is too bad

That's good to hear. Not about the ASB though. But the lovely staff

I'll pop in tomorrow. And thank you

Ask to see their policy for sure but if their policy is no under 16s after a certain time then I wouldn’t go expecting them to change it for your child any more than I’d expect them to let you take your 14 year old into a 15 year old child. Our kids are super special and different to us but to everyone else they’re just a number - and if that number is under the allowed age then that’s that. And it really doesn’t matter that she’s only wanting 90 extra minutes if that’s policy. What about the 14 year old who wants an extra two hours? It’s not at staff’s discretion to follow policy as and how they feel like it.

It seems a bit OTT with you being fuming/sad and her crying in the car park over now being allowed in the library after a certain time.

Into a 15 year old MOVIE!

When I saw this thread I thought you might have been talking about Barnet. They have rules about what age groups can use the service at certain times. However they do at least say that 15 year olds can get written permission to access the library when it’s unstaffed - perhaps your library could offer similar? www.barnet.gov.uk/libraries/library-opening-times/self-service-opening#title-0

I think yabu, and you should not be one of thise oarents who thinks the rules shouldn't apply to your family.
It is up to you to manage things st home so your 11 year old gives her space to study

I just want to wish your daughter good luck with her exams. It sounds like she's working really hard and I hope it pays off and she gets the grades she wants

What the fuck happens at that library after 7? Do they open up the porn and S&M section???

You mention in your follow-up post that the library is part of a gateway centre. That means the building is used for all sorts of other services, so I’m wondering if there are support groups or certain types of health services being provided there at night and that there might be a safeguarding concern relating to that, combined with them having fewer staff on hand after 7pm, of course.

I’m also wondering if parents were leaving younger kids there until 10pm because they don’t have childcare for evening shifts at work or something.

If the reason is safeguarding, then arguing the case is not going to help, and might make them more likely to put a reminder round staff to make sure U-16s are out by 7pm. They probably make sure they have someone DBS-checked on duty up to 7pm, but can't guarantee that afterwards. No amount of parental consent will let them risk being in trouble for not keeping to their safeguarding rules (unless they have a policy like Barnet's above).

I'm not one for lying normally, but I think that possibly buying her a "16 today" badge might be the way forward.

Thank you so much for your advice and views (and funny posts 😉). I popped in to see them this morning, as my daughter still wants to study there - it's perfectly quiet, thousands of books, and a huge clear desk, with other older students around doing the same, which inspires her. I can't recreate that at home each evening, and I think she wants to be out of the house for a few hours too. It works really well.

Anyway, the manager and head librarian saw me this morning and said there's no issue with insurance, safeguarding or any other protocol. The staff member who asked her to leave at 7pm was from another library and mistaken, perhaps using old guidelines from his setting, though they don't think any of the libraries treat students under 14 differently and nobody is asked to leave unless the whole building is closing. And she's welcome to study as long into the evening as she wishes, though I explained I always collect her 8.30 latest.

So, problem solved. And thank you again.