To ask how you think social issue arise?

[BloomsburyNook]

I'm nearly 50, so have seen a few decades. When I was young, if you visited a small handful of rough or run down places, you might see a few drunks or 'miscreants' or young lads messing around, but never anything really threatening or visible.
So it might just be me, and I've led a fairly quiet life, but there seem to be a hell of a lot more issues out there now, especially in ex industrial places and urban towns around the UK. I see a lot more homeless people, many who have evident addiction issues: women as much as men, and there are more gangs of teens smashing stuff, shouting, fighting, etc.
However, in many areas you hear that crime rates have dropped over the years. Perhaps it depends where you go, and many people in bad areas won't report to the police anyway.

I often travel with work, and see this across the uk, much more dereliction and dying high streets, and in many towns there's literally rubbish piling up along embankments and street corners that the councils never clear up. And it's not simple enough to say it's because these are run down areas - they were run down decades ago but not like this.

I know there are many lovely places, and I've lived in a few of those, too, and some go downhill a bit, some remain safe. So if you don't get out a lot you might not know it's going on? I don't know. I asked a few older friends recently had they noticed and they did admit that there were elements of this knocking around in the 70's, 80's, etc, but not to this extent.

How did it become worse? What is your opinion? What could be done to help? Are people generally poorer than 20 yrs ago? This is presuming poverty as a causation - is it? The news headlines often affirm this, but I don't really know across the board. I know there are a lot of very closed off towns that might make these issues worse due to people rarely leaving them, but is the issue more cultural than economical?

I think people are generally angrier and less satisfied on the whole, we are all a lot more stressed out even if some of us report we are doing great and don't notice it! It just seems like a different world from when I was in my 20's. And of course, it is! Imma gettin old!

Just to add, by cultural I mean background, interests, way of life - not race or religion.

Not an expert, but I think two things have changed

1. lack of reasonably paid work, especially for people who would traditionally have done factory / manual / basic clerical work - leading to more poverty / lack of engagement with society
2. increased availability of some very nasty drugs - even something like cannabis is much stronger than it was 20 years ago

This was life in the North under Thatcher

To be honest I think you've just been sheltered. Walking down the street in Edinburgh or Glasgow used to involve stepping over drunks with meths in brown paper bags. Gang fights in the car park of our local college, knife crime has actually reduced significantly etc etc. Taking your car stereo into the pub because if you left it in the car it would get stolen. Its not perfect but we are far safer now.

And I forgot Mods and Rockers

depends where you live

in some places its the effect of years of austerity and lack of investment.

I live in Coventry which has just finished its year as City of Culture. The investment in the city has been incredible, the town centre environment has been transformed - there is a real buzz around

also in many places the character of communities has changed - I live in a reasonsonably nice part of the city, traditional terrace housing. Whilst there has always been a student and transient young professional population, the student population in particular has exploded. The fly tipping at the end of term is horrendous, the landlords take weeks to clear rubbish from front gardens - foxes and rats get in and spread stuff everywhere.

There is plenty of evidence lying around of the availabilty of cheap drugs and alcohol.

I don't think I was sheltered really, but did have an easy ride in a rural area until 18. Moved to a local town centre soon after and still didn't notice much until before I left for good. All of the council areas were pretty sought after and well maintained, with barely any drug or issues. Now they're full of poor souls who can't even hope to work. Usually with convictions.

I had wondered if there is a line this stems from, such as being born into an abusive setting and never knowing other options after leaving school. I know that now even people with some privilege are struggling. It's depressing.

If I was in the same situation now that I was at 18 I would have really messed up. We had a lot more to lean on and access back then, and that was only 1993.
My older sister didn't have to pay rent while studying.

The tesco extra in our town used to be a normal supermarket with regular looking people in it. Now, it's quite scary shopping there. The people appear to be borderline dangerous, very rough, disordered and quite menacing. Some of it is down to drugs/alcohol, but not all. I'm scared to shop there now so go to Lidl which is okay.

I don't know why there's so many more people like this around now and where the regular people have gone. It's like they've been replaced.

In the northern industrial towns it started with the pit closures and the end of the steel works etc. But a lot of it, I think, is end of community. In the past "the village" took care of their own which meant caring for those in need, but also "dealing" with miscreants (as you put it).

But it's not new. I remember visiting Edinburgh almost 30 years ago and having to step over homeless drug addicts to get into restaurants.

I worked in King's Cross in the late 80s and there were loads of rough sleepers and beggars. The area was "cleaned up" and I think homelessness did reduce from the damage done in the Thatcher years, but we've definitely seen this before.

To be honest everywhere I go stinks of skunk these days. I don't get the appeal but only the alternatives smoked grass when I was a nipper. Perhaps it's cheaper than booze now, I don't know.

I have noticed way more issues in Labour areas too, and this bothers me as whilst partisan, I could never vote tory (no offence to anyone who does though).

How could we even begin to put a dent in it though? Manufacturing isn't going to come back, unless it's new tech and such. And BJ seems to have got a few of these places on his side - and I strongly doubt he has anything in common with their plight!

This has been going on since Thatcher came into power and has accelerated since 2010. Alongside the by-design increase in inequality there's also as has been mentioned the steady defunding of council services and the massive cuts in the number of mental health inpatient beds. To get an inpatient bed now the bar is increadibly high - which means an awful lot of very unwell people with MH and addiction issues who are getting little to no help are out there, struggling and impacting a lot of other people.

But this is what people keep voting for.

I don't know why there's so many more people like this around now and where the regular people have gone. It's like they've been replaced.

Seriously, I've asked myself this very question. I think they're shopping or moving elsewhere. My closest town lost it's M&S, Debs, Topshop, Next, Body Shop and several other stores. The only ones that remain are Primark, B&M's, Poundland.

Our Tesco is pretty good, as is the Sainsbury's but the Lidl is a bit depressed. The only one which really went sour is Asda. I think it depends where they are positioned. Our Asda is in a rough place, and it ain't cheap either!

But this is what people keep voting for.

But who is there to vote for? Tories have never given a shit about people in difficulty and Labour (who you might think should give a shit) are tying themselves in knots with identity politics / trying to appeal to the professional left.

Maybe the rise in politicians (from all parties) that have never done actual jobs hasn’t helped?

I agree with the Thatcher part, and also I have to suggest that manufacturing was going south regardless. My DH blames everything on Thatcher, it's a running joke, except...not so funny :(

I honestly noticed it first in 2007. I left my old town due to the sudden influx of motorbikes, crime and arson. Prior to this is was a lazy Sunday kind of place. No idea what happened, but it was bloody awful. It shits on your memories. I do agree that 2010 accelerated it though. But no one seems to care if they're not living in it.

I've only lived 'near' it, and it seems to have become even worse since the pandemic. Most old phone boxes are smashed, and if you visit town on any day of the week you have to step over drunks. I'm not exaggerating either.

We don't go anymore, only for the bank really. We don't drive so get a 5 min train to another town to shop.

I agree with you, but if you research funding for the NHS during each party's tenure, the tories have almost starved it. Even if Labour are a bit shitty right now, our services are safer with them, I think. It doesn't feel like much of a democracy with only two parties to me, I would prefer a good coalition of the SNP, Lab, LD's and Green.

You clearly did not live in Ballyfermot in the 1980s

I've only lived 'near' it, and it seems to have become even worse since the pandemic. Most old phone boxes are smashed, and if you visit town on any day of the week you have to step over drunks. I'm not exaggerating either.

We don't go anymore, only for the bank really. We don't drive so get a 5 min train to another town to shop.

I think this is part of the problem actually. Town centres and local shops have been abandoned by people who can chose to go to the out of town places (ie have cars and funds), leaving the town centres exclusively used by the serially disadvantaged and the less people with money go to the centres, the "worse" they get.

Really interesting post, OP. I've been asking myself this for a while too. Also, and not to de-rail your thread, how do places become "run-down" in the first place? I hear so often around where I live (North ) from the older generation " it used to be a lovely area this....." where I live there is a lot of racism and it is often blamed on people coming from overseas but I honestly don't think it's that simple!

In poorer communities, the only thing people could be proud of was their cultural identity, and working class northerners have had years of people telling them things like they're racist bigots for flying the St George's Cross. Meanwhile factories and industry have closed, so you no longer have estates where everyone works in the same place. They've lost their identity. And without that, you've nothing to be proud of, and therefore you don't take any interest in helping to keep the community and streets happy and nice looking.

There are also lots more rich people visible, and wealth resentment is a real thing that makes people angry and bitter with their lot. Middle class kids used to go to grammar schools. Now everyone's mixed, the poorer kids look at the middle class kids and grow up thinking "how is that fair that they're going skiing and I'm going to Skegness, when their parents don't work anymore hours than mine do?". It builds up generations of resentment, apathy and overwhelming "why even try?" feeling.

No idea what the solution would be. Bring back industry I guess. Make a minimum wage living be enough for a family of four to live off.

We found some of the nicer areas are cheaper (we rent and don't wish to buy at our age). Some of the more run down areas were more expensive to buy or rent due to good transport links and such. There were just pockets of unrest all over.

True that having a vehicle is key. I stopped driving for 10 years and feel forced to take it back up. Especially since Covid.

the reason it's hard to address is that it's multifactorial. outsourcing of jobs to developing nations (lower salary) is part of the problem as is the loss of long term mental health institutions.

Yep, my DH was born in the north too, his old town is struggling now. He remembers it fondly and says there were a handful of rough folks you just avoided, and that was it.
I think, in the past, people had to move to chase work. Much like immigrants do, and always did. In the UK now people get stuck in one place and when the work goes, they have to rely on benefits. Whilst this is a good thing, the gov make it difficult for people to move around and get off benefits, and many landlords won't accept waiting for new cashflow after a house move.

By 'making it hard to get off benefits' I am referring to a poster from a few weeks ago who is disabled on ESA. She is afraid to move out of her 'bad' area as she will be put on UC just for making the change. Her UC entitlement is less than her ESA. It's a minefield.

We are lucky to have these services, and god knows this lot would love to dissolve them, but they do render people helpless and immobile generally.

Probably the most bang on reason, I agree. I wish there were politicians who would talk about this instead of populist crap, and I am including Starmer!
Corbyn grabbed it by the horns but he simply wan't popular...in other ways.