Page 8 | To email school about them banning any food that "may contain traces of nuts"?

PartyGoose · 2022-05-16T14:06:23+00:00

Had an email last night from DD's school (it's a school that goes right through from 3-18 so covers all age groups) saying that as of today --give us plenty of notice why don't you-- no food can be brought onto school premises that contains nuts or "may contain traces of nuts" due to a child with a severe nut allergy starting there. I can't see how this is workable. It rules out about 50% of bought food, and 100% of food made/prepared in my kitchen as we eat a lot of nuts at home. *Obviously* I am more than willing to avoid sending any food that actually has nuts in, and I'm going to take extreme care to check labels etc going forward. But...surely they can't expect everyone to avoid anything that "may contain traces of nuts"? That's just not doable for most people.

TempNameChangexx · 16/05/2022 19:49

I'm not sure why people don't understand what you're saying.
It's pretty much impossible to avoid anything "that may contain traces of nut" especially if you eat nuts at home.

At one place my sister worked they had "may contain nuts" on the completely plain baked potatoes, presumably just to cover themselves.....

I'd definitely contact the school if it was me - overworked or not, they've clearly not thought this through properly....

ChoiceMummy · 16/05/2022 19:49

AgeingDoc · 16/05/2022 18:57

Many still die despite adrenaline being administered
Actually, they don't. People do die of course, but not "many".
I've got 2 allergic children and I worked in Intensive Care Medicine for 30+ years so I have probably got more experience of anaphylaxis than most, and I am not intending to trivialise it. It's horrible, terrifying to treat and worse to experience - but things need to be kept in perspective. People are not dropping dead all over the place from food related allergies.
There was an excellent review article in the BMJ last year showing that although rates of hospital admission are going up, death rates have decreased significantly. www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n251
It's very interesting to find that the commonly held belief (and I did think the same) that deaths from food allergy are rapidly increasing is just not true. More people are reacting, but better recognition and treatment mean the percentage who die is actually falling.
There were 187 documented fatalities from food related anaphylaxis in the years 1992-2018 - just under half were nut or peanut related. Of those deaths, 66 were in school aged children, and the most frequent causative allergen was cows' milk.
For context, over 1400 people died as a result of road traffic collisions in 2020 alone, and more children die from cancer every year in the UK than all the paediatric food allergy deaths recorded over the 26 years of this review.
Obviously that is no consolation to the families who have lost loved ones, and of course it is right to take reasonable precautions to protect people, but the data just do not support the idea that children are dying because a school mate in another class eats a biscuit that may contain nut traces at lunch.
Someone mentioned planes earlier. They are a special case, partly because of the air circulation systems, but as a PP mentioned, it's now thought that a significant proportion of reactions on flights are due to direct contact not airborne particles. Fast turnaround times mean that hygiene standards on board planes are not great. Tray tables and seats are often not cleaned, blankets get resused by multiple passengers between washes, and so on. So if an airline is not permanently nut free there's always a chance that nut particles are present on surfaces which the allergic person then touches with their hands or their own food and accidentally ingests. It will be interesting to see if enhanced cleaning post covid decreases these issues.
As schools are also not super hygenic places, it makes sense to prevent actual nuts being brought in as much as possible. But banning all items labelled as possibly cross contaminated with nuts seems excessive.
I don't suppose anyone has accurately calculated the risk of death to an allergic child from a schoolmate's lunch as it's probably impossible to do so. But if you consider how improbable the chances are that a product labelled may contain actually does contain a significant amount of nuts, the likelihood that a child eating such a product leaves enough residue somewhere that an allergic child in a completely different class comes into contact with it in sufficient quantities to cause a reaction and the quoted death rate of around 0.2%- 0.3% of those who are unwell enough to be admitted to hospital with anaphylaxis, then the overall risk must be very small indeed.
Not I hasten to add, am I advocating ignoring the issue, and I understand very well the anxiety of leaving a child at risk of anaphylaxis in an uncontrolled environment, but there have to be limits on what restrictions are attempted. Make the school nut free, ok. Maybe even have tighter restrictions in the child's specific class if there is genuine evidence that they are so sensitive that a "may contain nuts" item poses a real threat.
But to attempt to make an entire 3-18 school follow those rules is almost certainly unnecessary, and futile. People don't follow rules they view as excessively restrictive so they will start breaking them. Then if they don't see any adverse effects, they break them some more, which may well lead to actual nut products being brought in and a real risk developing.
It is an illogical knee jerk reaction on the part of the school in my opinion. It won't achieve what they hope and does not absolve them from the responsibility to provide appropriate care and supervision for the allergic child/ren. Time would be much better spent on delivering the Anaphylaxis Campaign's allergy awareness courses than trying to control the entire school's diet.

Excellent, well balanced post.

ChoiceMummy · 16/05/2022 19:52

Ppbbww9 · 16/05/2022 19:38

"Just eat separately"- how would you feel if you were made to sir apart from your friend's because of something that is not your fault? My DD has allergies to nuts and sesame. I would hate for her to have to sit alone because of it. You have chosen to be a vegan, my DD did not choose to have life threatening allergies.

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Is your child not worth being appropriately protected?

Obviously not given your response.

If an autistic child cannot cope with the noise in the lunch hall what happens, they're taken to eat somewhere quieter. They didn't ask to be autistic. The edict isn't that noone in the hall says a word...

Exactly the same. A reasonable adjustment.

JudgeJ · 16/05/2022 19:56

MrsTerryPratchett · 16/05/2022 15:24

if you go for good old fashioned sandwiches or fruit you’re safe

Nope. DD has a nut allergy and many breads have nuts or may contain traces of nuts. Plus, she won't eat sandwiches. Much better for HER to learn and be aware. Which is what now happens. In Primary they tried to ban everything in class and there was mine, plus eggs, fish, a couple of other things. It was ridiculous. Rather than implementing strict 'no sharing', strict 'be aware in your class' and strict handwashing.

My granddaughter took a sandwich I had made for her to school and she had to eat it away from the others as it was seeded bread!

BlanketsBanned · 16/05/2022 19:58

Does this extend to cosmetics, toiletries, lotions, soap, cooking oils.

starlingdarling · 16/05/2022 19:59

InkySquid · 16/05/2022 19:36

I don't think the school is being unreasonable. You can do your best to avoid nuts. Obviously traces of nuts isn't quite possible because companies use it as a catch all but it's perfectly possible to avoid nuts

So you admit that avoiding traces of nuts, i.e. may contains items is not possible but still think the school is reasonable in banning them

I think it encourages the use of common sense. A cereal bar is far more likely to contain traces of nuts (which are a common ingredient in other cereal bars) than your average loaf of bread.

Ppbbww9 · 16/05/2022 20:14

ChoiceMummy · 16/05/2022 19:52

Is your child not worth being appropriately protected?

Obviously not given your response.

If an autistic child cannot cope with the noise in the lunch hall what happens, they're taken to eat somewhere quieter. They didn't ask to be autistic. The edict isn't that noone in the hall says a word...

Exactly the same. A reasonable adjustment.

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Its not the same. I work with an autistic child and he is included in everything. Honestly, he is not excluded from noisy activities - the activities are toned down so he doesn't have to go to a separate room. It's called being inclusive.

Also, how dare you imply that I don't care about my own child? How dare you?
I agree with the OP that it is not possible to avoid may contains, but there was an excellent post above that explained why the chances of having a reaction from another child eating may contains was very slim. All that is needed is for actual nut products to not be bought in to school, and my daughter will be fine to sit next to whoever she pleases. She is in Y6 in a nut free school and has not had a reaction yet. She has not needed to sit separately from anyone.

Manekinek0 · 16/05/2022 20:21

starlingdarling · 16/05/2022 19:59

I think it encourages the use of common sense. A cereal bar is far more likely to contain traces of nuts (which are a common ingredient in other cereal bars) than your average loaf of bread.

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But that is the point of this thread, there is no common sense. Either the child has such a severe allergy that even may contains products will potentially trigger a reaction or someone at the school screwed up and they just mean no nuts.

You can't pick and choose which may contains products you think are most likely to cause issues and then claim it is common sense.

Thebeastofsleep · 16/05/2022 20:30

TrashyPanda · 16/05/2022 15:22

The schools approach goes against the advice of the Anaphylaxis Society, who do not recommend “nut bans” in schools, far less banning foods which “may contain” nuts.

a nut allergy is no more serious than any other allergy. A friends daughter is allergic to many things, including nuts, dairy, carrots and black pepper. There’s no way any school could ban all of these!

You say this, but our school are trying (and failing) to ban 10 items including chickpeas, lentils, strawberries, melon. It's completely unmanageable!

theobligatorynamechange · 16/05/2022 20:34

Hi @PartyGoose - you said the school was a specialist school and that your DC is disabled. Can I just check what you mean by specialist? Is it a specialist subject/faith school, or is it a school aimed at supporting children with SEN?

I think banning nuts at primary school level is often smart, because it's hard to police small children swapping foods they shouldn't. You don't really need to do this at secondary level, unless the students have a younger mental age than their physical age.

I'm with you 100% that banning 'may contain traces of' is ridiculous. I will die if I eat nuts, but I will merrily eat 90% of things that say 'may contain traces of' on the label. The respect has either come from the parents of a PFB who haven't yet figured out how to manage the allergy or from an overzealous teacher who doesn't want the school to get sued. Whoever is responsible for this instruction is being daft.

Cut out nuts and 'may contain traces of' and nut allergy sufferers would starve.

I think it's sensible to ban nuts in the primary school. Perhaps the secondary school if there is mixing between age groups/mixing between lunch areas and/or if the students have SEN. It's sensible not to feed your DC nuts before school unless you're 100% confident you can clean the evidence up (if your DC is a messy eater, safest to save the nuts for after school instead).

However, it's stupid to ban the non-existent traces. I think it's sensible for this to be raised, but I think it's going to be difficult coming from you. Do you know any parents of children with allergies who perhaps manage those allergies more sensibly?

Muffinsorcrumpets · 16/05/2022 20:35

PartyGoose · 16/05/2022 18:58

Right so are you suggesting I send a sodding Easter egg as my child's packed lunch? I'm not sure I know of much else out there that guarantees absolutely zero potential nut contamination

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My comment was directed to @cecilthehungryspider and not to you @PartyGoose. She said Easter Eggs were causing her some difficulty and I thought maybe I could help.

This is what I had said to you in a previous post:

OP, you don't need to set up your house to be nut-free of course. I think the school don't completely realise what they're asking. Take the precautions you've mentioned, ie no nuts or hidden nuts (in chocolate spreads etc). The school could ask children to wash hands on arrival too. The allergic child will need to take precautions themselves also.

By the way, you're wrong about there being few nut-free options available in supermarkets. In fact, there are many options available, they just take some finding at the start. I know because I'm living this life.
But you don't have to, that's what I'm saying. Just take a few simple precautions with the lunches, that's all. The school have got it wrong.

HappyMeal564 · 16/05/2022 20:45

My child suffers with anaphylaxis and while I naturally welcome the nut ban I agree that banning may contain is taking it too far. He has other allergies too but you can't bar everything. I disagree with@Kindofcrunchy though, I would hate the thought of my child spending his time at school eating separately from others due to others. I doubt you would like it if your vegan children were made to eat separately from those who eat meat and animal produce

Muffinsorcrumpets · 16/05/2022 20:46

Cut out nuts and 'may contain traces of' and nut allergy sufferers would starve.

No.
No, they wouldn't.
And you're taking a risk if you eat food labelled ''may contain traces' if you have a nut allergy.
A small risk maybe, but a risk nevertheless.

Just because a bar of chocolate labelled as such is okay ninety-nine times out of a hundred, doesn't mean it'll be okay the hundredth time.

It's a choice to take that risk and that's fine, but don't tell people it's a choice they have to make or they'll starve, because that's just complete rubbish. It really is.

I'm actually a bit shocked at the number of people on here who say they are feeding their nut allergic children food labelled 'may contain nuts'.

Fruitygal · 16/05/2022 20:50

@Thebeastofsleep I'd be very interested to know why your school have chosen to attempt to ban that selection of foods ....very odd ...they aren't part of the 14 allergens ...is it a single child with multiple allergies ??

danni0509 · 16/05/2022 20:51

@PartyGoose I find it ridiculous they’ve made such a drastic decision, loads of items say ‘may contain nuts’ to cover manufactures arses. You say it’s a SN school which is even more bonkers.

Ds goes to a SN school, he eats same things day in day out, same items. If they even so much as change a wrapper on one of ‘his foods’ he never eats it again. Very particular.

He has a set amount of safe foods that he lives on, what if they all said ‘may contain nuts’ on the packaging, is he supposed to not eat again?

Fuck that. I’d be sending a complaint too.

PestorPeston · 16/05/2022 21:02

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 16/05/2022 17:24

Virtually every item in the supermarket has a disclaimer 'may contain' or similar, just to cover themselves. If you ruled out all of those, there's very little left to bring in!
BTW if anyone needs a nut-free peanut butter alternative, we use Wow Butter made from soybeans for DC's school sandwiches.

That's me hitting the epi pen or maybe I have just developed fastidious food hygiene practises.

Much better that you have a no nuts policy and remind people that Nutella contains nuts.

May contain drives us all mad.

YouHaventDoneAnyWork · 16/05/2022 21:03

I understand what you’re saying OP.

It sounds to me like the school have potentially been clumsy in their wording and this needs clarifying. As it’s currently stated it’s unreasonable in the sense it’s not realistic. If they intended this worded that’s crazy because again it’s not realistic.

To seek clarification is neither unfeeling nor creating chaos for schools. Teachers won’t be yanked out of class for this, it will be handled be the school office team.

AxolotlEars · 16/05/2022 21:04

The only way to completely ensure this is to buy "free from food" ...we certainly could not afford this. However I know how dangerous anaphylaxis is so would prefer to stick to the guidelines to protect those who are vulnerable. Others have commented on whether this is really the advice that is suggested by organisations/help groups.

sheepandcaravan · 16/05/2022 21:19

Op I agree with you, I could do no more than you say.

But, what are the school doing? I'm rural Scotland, 70 in school, plus five nursery. Lots of allergies. Nobody sends packed lunches. I'm assuming it's different England? But here there are say four a day to chose and I'm looking now and no way they would all comply. Some might, but even bread seeing peoples comments here?

GenderCriticalTrumpets · 16/05/2022 21:25

Muffinsorcrumpets · 16/05/2022 20:46

Cut out nuts and 'may contain traces of' and nut allergy sufferers would starve.

No.
No, they wouldn't.
And you're taking a risk if you eat food labelled ''may contain traces' if you have a nut allergy.
A small risk maybe, but a risk nevertheless.

Just because a bar of chocolate labelled as such is okay ninety-nine times out of a hundred, doesn't mean it'll be okay the hundredth time.

It's a choice to take that risk and that's fine, but don't tell people it's a choice they have to make or they'll starve, because that's just complete rubbish. It really is.

I'm actually a bit shocked at the number of people on here who say they are feeding their nut allergic children food labelled 'may contain nuts'.

God, same. I check every single thing my DS eats, even if he has eaten it before because sneaky companies like to change things. Although it's a faff it is absolutely fine - he has crisps, biscuits, ice cream, all sorts. We just check the label and I make most things from scratch.

The reaction he had to eating peanuts a few years ago was the most terrifying moment of my life and one I'm not in a rush to repeat.

splishsplashsploshsplish · 16/05/2022 21:28

I certainly understand where you are coming from OP and would do as you are.
DH's family have many life threatening allergies and when we are in close contact or they are visiting us we do our best. But we all eat at restaurants together and go to parties together.

The school will be prepared with the required medical instructions and the teachers will be well informed.
I would email the school for further clarification, if you feel it is needed. (I personally would, just for reassurance).

Doing what you can is the best that you can do. Good luck!

GenderCriticalTrumpets · 16/05/2022 21:30

Totally confused at what people are finding difficult about finding food that doesnt have "may contain". Off the top of my head DS has kitkats, caramel wafers, McCoy's crisps, baby bel, peperami, fruit, a cheese sandwich with a bread roll... loads of other snacks. Its really easy to feed him now we know to check everything. Most beige buffet stuff doesn't have "may contain" either

Ben and Jerry's ice cream used to be nut free but recently changed grrrr. So I get a different brand and make my own cookie dough to shove in.

DS is far from starving

saraclara · 16/05/2022 21:33

Have you actually read the OP and many responses? The school is not going nut free. It's going 'no foods where the packaging says "may contain traces of nuts" ' which simply means food produced in a factory that might have nuts elsewhere in the building. Just like our own kitchens.

It's close to impossible then, to send in foods that 'may contain traces of nuts' because in addition to must supermarket labels saying that, if you have any nuts on your kitchen anywhere, then every single thing you send in with your own child, 'may' contain traces of nuts.

User56785 · 16/05/2022 21:45

Bloody Kit Kats! My dc had the worst cross contamination reaction ever to a Kit Kat. Aren't there peanut butter Kit Kats. I wouldn't know as obviously I don't buy them any more.

saraclara · 16/05/2022 21:47

BalloonsAndWhistles · 16/05/2022 19:30

Now re-write your post as if you’re the mum of the child who has the potentially fatal nut allergy.

Then you’ll see who’s being unreasonable 🙄 🙄

Several parents of children with anaphylactic nut allergies have posted here in support of the OP. Because they know it's an unreasonable ask, and they know that because it's so close to impossible to confirm to, parents will break the rule, and then end up sending stuff that ACTUALLY contains nuts, therefore putting those poster's children at more risk.