So called 'paedophile hunters'

[motherofdragons33]

Apologies for sensitive subject but am I the only person who finds these so called hunters problematic?

There is a video currently circulating my social media of a 'sting' on a young man from a town not far from where I live. He has allegedly been talking sexually to who he believed was a 13 year old girl but was actually a decoy. The video shows the sting and is 45 minutes long. During the video he faints and his parents are involved, presumably this is a huge shock to them and they seemed confused and were defending their son.

The comments were terrible. Lots of people saying the parents must have known and should be arrested too. Comments about them looking like 'nonces' themselves. This is where I have the issue - people who have no involvement get dragged into the public lynching and have their lives ruined when it's probably come as a horrible shock to them too.

I'm not sympathising with this person of course, if he's done what he's accused of then it's sickening and he should be punished. But is this the right way to go about things? I can't help but feel like this type of Facebook vigilante justice is a bit of a glory hunt and is quite irresponsible. There are many cases where genuine police investigations have been hampered by them. And do the immediate family whether it's parents, spouses, children deserve to be dragged into something they know nothing about?

And that's fine it's when the Hunters ,blast the evidence all over the Internet jeopardising any fair trial it becomes a big problem.
I agree that uploading stings online is wrong, I have no problem with the hunting itself just the catch.
The information should be handed to the police so the perpetrator can get a suspended sentence and registered.
There has to be a better way of changing things.
I can't remember where I saw the study people are born attracted by same sex, opposite sex, or under age minors.
Conversion therapy doesn't work, castration or hormone blockers maybe? It wouldn't work for those who enjoyed it.

What crime is that? Whataw was she breaking?

Exactly - there's a very good example of the problems of giving people who don't know what they're talking about any part in the process.

Yanbu. Where I see and appreciate the job they are doing catching potential offenders I have seen numerous of these videos where the offender clearly has complex needs. It also makes family a target for vigilante justice. Give your evidence to the police and let them handle it. Why does it need to be plastered over the Internet?

I spend my working life at court reporting on these kind of cases. The vast, vast majority of these men are caught by the police. We get probably one every year in our court that’s a successful conviction brought about by the actions of an online vigilante group.

But I do hear of many cases where prosecutions have been compromised by these morons because those involved were already under surveillance by the police or because the ‘stings’ drive them underground.

The gotcha videos they produce have never once been used as evidence in court as they simply aren’t admissible. So what’s the point of them? They’re for clicks. If these people were genuinely interested in justice being done they would hand over their ‘evidence’ to the police and not stick it up on FB.

I know the video you mean I've seen it. In my opinion it should be left to the police, as others have said they should hand evidence to the police without streaming it online

Any kind of 'trial' without actual legal process is just a bunch of self serving twats committing a crime themselves.theyre not protecting anyone, and have been known to make bringing charges impossible.

But I do hear of many cases where prosecutions have been compromised by these morons because those involved were already under surveillance by the police or because the ‘stings’ drive them underground

That's a really good point about people who don't know what they've doing wading in and wrecking an ongoing surveillance because they think they know better.

The punishment that the courts give these scumbags is often so insignificant and lacking I’m glad in a way that these groups exist. Often you hear that these sickos only get community service, not even a custodial sentence, for violating young minds and attempting to meet for their own sick sexual gratification. At least when they are named and shamed online the local communities are aware and can safeguard children who may have otherwise come into contact with them.

i feel like a lot of these hunters have very little other accomplishments in their lives and that spending time and sharing their ‘catch’ makes up for it.

very few of the hunts lead to convictions because they usually entrap people by pretending to be underage.

I’m not being an apologist, but more needs to be done in schools to educate young people. There appear to be far too many 18 year olds on the sex offenders register for messages/ images to girls a few years younger

Why do they need to film the sting and put it online if their main concern is only with bringing sexual predators to justice?

Why don't they simply hand the evidence to the police?

On the Hunting Warhead podcast, the ethical hacker/journo almost ruined the massive international investigations that could never have been replicated, wasting that million to one shot and leaving some real nasty fuckers at large.
even if the intentions are perfect these things need to be done in professional capacities with the appropriate resources and if we need to do more efforts should be directed to campaigning for better online safety etc not having a go yourself.

The stings are filmed so that the hunters can not be accused of hitting or otherwise attacking the predator. Putting it on alerts people in the area.

The case in the OP was a man who fainted when confronted by adults but he was not at all afraid to talk sexually to what he thought was a child. What I don't understand is the attraction to young teens and preteens.

A PP mentioned that quite a number of the persons stung are clearly suffering some mental health or limitations. That does not change the damage they do to children they harm with their filthy talk. If they are se limited they need to be more thoroughly monitored by their carers, social services and police.

There is so much talk on here that the hunters are doing all sorts and their information should go straight to the police. That is all very well but we have seen how the social worker mother re-acted in the case mentioned. Not one single care about the child(ren) victimised by her son. The father claimed to have a shotgun to defend his son. Dear Heavens. How can they defend the indefensible. It is a criminal offence to groom children!

If you were the relative of children who were sexually abused, you really would not care what anyone did to the person responsible. Social workers and police need to be seen to be very proactive in these situations. This is what will lead to vigilante activists

Name changed for this for obvious reasons....

A member of my extended family was court by a sting. None of the family whatsoever were dragged into it.
He had done it twice. One time he was caught by the police, charged, on the offenders list.

Second time he was caught by a hunters group.

He has ADHD and possibly autism. (From his own accord, never proven AFAIK)

I couldn't give two shits about that, he got prosecuted and spent time behind bars. He has been released now he was a few years ago. Most of the family are NC and the remaining are LC.
People in the area know his face from when it was shared on live stream. People know what he looks like. I find it extremely hard to feel sorry for any single person, ND or not, who looks at children and is attracted to them, especially if they act on it. They deserve all they get.

If somebody was abusing your child, had inappropriate pictures, physically abused them, would you think 'oh their poor family getting dragged in it?'

I couldn't give a damn! Yes it's unfair IF they get dragged into it. But the main thing I would think of is the safety of my child and other children. Not the rest of the family related to a nonce.

Nonces deserve every bit of online abuse, sharing what they look like to the local community, raising awareness of where the person is located etc to protect your own children.

Wouldn't wish their families any harm of course (if they weren't involved) but I wouldn't really care about them either.

If the police did a better job there'd be nothing for these people to do.

This. A guy I worked with was caught this way. Everyone he worked with saw the video of the sting which went on for what felt like hours. He was arrested, charged and sent home where he attempted suicide. The case never went to court.

Glad they’re doing a service on behalf of others. Horrible nonces

They’re not doing anyone a service if their actions prevent a prosecution. Quite the reverse.

And if the "Nonce" walks free instead of being prosecuted, because they wouldn't get a fair trial??

🙄

Thick as two short planks

If they can provide evidence to the police that secures a conviction - great. Acting as judge and jury, no. The police should be supported and equipped to bring these people to justice but the cynical in me wonders whether there is an element of enjoying the attention amongst some of these vigilantes. I can understand why people support it because we all find paedophiles abhorrent but I would ask people on here how they would feel if a loved one was wrongly accused by these groups?

It's one thing catching a paedophile and sending the evidance to the police, it's quite another broadcasting it to the world

Exactly - it's the broadcasting which gives away that they're more interested in "hero status" for themselves than justice, and never mind what they're hoping that status will cover up
Their efforts would be better spent pressurising the authorities to act, but probably that wouldn't be as much "fun"

If a person wants to catch criminals, why not join the police force or work with them in a voluntary capacity? That would be the obvious way to go about it.

Why seek out a group of untrained, unknown individuals who lurk in kid's chat rooms in the hopes that someone dodgy turns up? And then go on to livestream it, risking the whole effort being thrown out?

Maybe because it's not about catching criminals? Or maybe the police don't want them for some mysterious reason?

I served on a jury earlier this year where we found the defendant guilty on multiple counts of online child sex offences. The “sting” video was produced as evidence on a TV in court, as was a 400+ page dossier of screenshots from the chat which was our main piece of evidence. The first thing that the judge told us in the courtroom was that vigilante groups act within the scope of the law.

The vigilante group stood in court as witnesses, it was bizarre hearing how much free time they spend sending these messages. Literally all hours of the day for months on end. I found it difficult to understand their true motivations, however it didn’t make the defendant any less guilty.

The screenshots showed us how the inside of a paedophile’s mind truly works: extremely manipulative, calculating and coercive. They make it very clear that they are looking for sexual relations with a child. It was extremely disturbing and I found it very difficult to consume the evidence and various testimonies, I’m going the counselling to try and process it.

Ultimately I agree that the groups are probably unethical and I still don’t understand why they feel the need to live stream them - notoriety maybe? But on balance they are ultimately doing a good thing by preventing these men from being able to access real children.