So called 'paedophile hunters'

[motherofdragons33]

Apologies for sensitive subject but am I the only person who finds these so called hunters problematic?

There is a video currently circulating my social media of a 'sting' on a young man from a town not far from where I live. He has allegedly been talking sexually to who he believed was a 13 year old girl but was actually a decoy. The video shows the sting and is 45 minutes long. During the video he faints and his parents are involved, presumably this is a huge shock to them and they seemed confused and were defending their son.

The comments were terrible. Lots of people saying the parents must have known and should be arrested too. Comments about them looking like 'nonces' themselves. This is where I have the issue - people who have no involvement get dragged into the public lynching and have their lives ruined when it's probably come as a horrible shock to them too.

I'm not sympathising with this person of course, if he's done what he's accused of then it's sickening and he should be punished. But is this the right way to go about things? I can't help but feel like this type of Facebook vigilante justice is a bit of a glory hunt and is quite irresponsible. There are many cases where genuine police investigations have been hampered by them. And do the immediate family whether it's parents, spouses, children deserve to be dragged into something they know nothing about?

The decoys do not do sexy talk, send photos or approach the paedophile first as that is entrapment. The decoy usually responds with things like " I don't understand", " I'm scared", " I'm only a child". Every chance is taken to ensure that all the evidence comes from the paedophile and that they've in no way been led into anything and that the hunters can say with all certainty that the paedophile believed they were talking to a child.

And then the perpetrator will say they can't have a fair trial so the whole thing is jeopardised
But hey as long as the Hunters get their likes
Who cares that the paedophile, s walk free?

And I do agree with the work they do. These men wouldn't be found out otherwise and would go on to abuse real children if they haven't already. Although I don't agree with all the approaches they use and I think some don't use professionalism.

And I do agree with the work they do. These men wouldn't be found out otherwise and would go on to abuse real children if they haven't already. Although I don't agree with all the approaches they use and I think some don't use professionalism

so when they don’t use due legal process and offenders go free to abuse again? That’s ok? Even if you think “sharing for awareness” that makes fuck all difference as they don’t use their own photos when they’re online

the police do this work too. They’re just as likely to be found by a police operation as by these groups. Only the police are far more likely to get a conviction and actually stop them.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider in fairness if someone turned up at your home accusing your son of this then your first instinct would probably be to defend them or at the very least question it. All she has is the 'evidence' of these untrained, unprofessional people to go on. I imagine it came as a huge shock to her. People commenting saying that she and her husband 'look like nonces too' are hardly helping matters are they?

Leave the professionals to do their job and go seek your Facebook likes and validation somewhere else.

Majority of them wouldn't be caught in the first place. Plenty of them get convicted.

I do seek nor do I need validation from anyone. I'm not here to be liked by anyone. Please do not try to change my opinion because it will not work nor will it wash. I feel what I feel end of story.

Just like I have no right to try and change your opinion.

It's unfortunate that they feel forced to take action against the 1000's of filty perverts who try their hand with vulnerable DC online.

I know a group of female hunters, the evidence collected leaves no doubt before the pedophile is s approached usually carrying lube and alcohol for his victim.

I'm not sure jail or conversion therapy helps the epidemic, the Internet has brought the sick fucks out of the woodwork in their millions worldwide.

There’s something sinister about pretending to be a 13 year old and indulging with sexy talk with a paedophile.
They do not encourage sexy talk and usually are past victims of sexual abuse themselves.
If you watch the police whistle blower podcast with James English there wouldn't be any faith whatsoever leaving it in the hands of the police.

This - I think it'll fall on deaf ears on this thread with the pitchfork brigade, but you really really cannot overestimate how high the risk of acquiescent behaviour is with some individuals within the LD population. They don't quite understand what's being said to them - and after a lifetime of bullying at school, being called out by teachers for not following what's being said and the like - they've learnt often quite a large range of strategies to hide when they don't understand things - ranging from telling someone to fuck off, to just agreeing to everything to get someone to shut up and go away. Dig down into their language understanding and you'll usually find issues all over the shop and they've just learnt how to hide it over their lives.

Dealt with CORRECTLY - and the system can work with individuals with LD who have committed these kind of offences - supported living and sexual harm prevention orders and making absolutely sure that they understand the conditions of them (which usually takes a lot of work as no bugger understands legalese at the best of time) and that all risks are assessed and monitored, work on boundaries, appropriate behaviour and consent (you'd be surprised how often there's a lack of understanding there and it needs to be clarified as people haven't just picked it up growing up with LD)... but when JoeLikeAndSubscribeVengefulAngleOfRighteousness bungs him yelling in that individual's face up on Facebook for likes and thumbs up - the whole thing gets fucked up, no way to deal with it legally, the family get run out of the area and it can all go tits up again elsewhere.

I've spent a fair amount of time with people with LD who've ended up in the criminal justice system and some of the stories and how little they've understood of the process are actually pretty shocking - not taking anything away from the victims of offences they've committed - but both sides have usually been failed in some way.

Glory hunting. It is disgusting. They should be arrested themselves. Nil other reason for posting it on social media.

Well quite

These sorts of mobs usually attract the hard of thinking

Hiding in plain sight, as a PP said.

YANBU

The reasons why there are checks and balances in the criminal justice process is to prevent innocent people from being wrongly punished.

These vigilantes want to sidestep the safeguards for their own glorification and moral crusade.

You do know that we have innocent until proven guilty don’t you?

Oh but wait, how dare someone defend their child who they as yet have no idea whether they courted a crime apart from the fact that a group of thugs turned up on his doorstep with a facebook live feed.

The more I read about these stings, the more I think that the people who perpetrate them and the people who defend the people who perpetrate them are somewhat lacking in inteligence.

They don’t have to. The people they’re talking to do. So essentially they’re getting off on a paedophile talking about what they would like to do to a 13 year old. You don’t think that’s perverse?

These so called paedophile hunters are just as much perverts as the people they claim to be outing.

This.

The criminal justice system was created to make sure that punishment was fair. Without effective and proper procedure, humans have a tendency to lynch people, often the wrong person.

The problem is that the legal system is falling apart. Most rapists don’t end up in prison, child abusers are rarely caught, courts have huge delays. So vigilante justice inevitably emerges. We need a better funded and better trained police force that has better priorities, or we’ll end up lynching people and burning witches again.

I’m particularly interested in the way social media justice warriors try to destroy careers/livelihoods in a way that is way out of proportion to the perceived ‘offence’ (which is usually the terrible crime of disagreeing with the loudest mob du jour). Courts don’t do that. They issue fines and prison time but they don’t deliberately destroy livelihoods. It’s an interesting difference.

That is not completely true.

I know someone who's husband was arrested and later sentenced. Until the police turned up on her doorstep she had no idea. She was devastated. I know her really well, and I know she had not a clue. Their marriage was going through a rough patch, but she had no idea that this was the reason.

The thing is, they have 3 children. At the time they were primary school age.

I am eternally grateful that in the process of reporting etc on her bastard dh, her name, and that of her kids, was left out of it. It was hard enough for them as a family trying to live in the aftermath of the discovery.

If he had been found by a vigilante group, I am sure her kids' faces would now be plastered all over social media. As it is they have all suffered long term mental health issues as a direct result of who their father is.

Why are her kids less important than his victims? They are all sufferers. And they are all kids.

It is too easy to say the innocent children are the sufferers. Life is often more complex, which set of innocent children take priority here?

There's a documentary on Netflix called Pedophile Hunters I think.
It's about Stinson Hunter.

Now all the rest of it aside.
They talk to a cop during the show and he says he encountered 2000+ me approaching what they thought was underage girls. In all of them, only 2 ever said no, you're too young.

I've no sympathy for the men that get caught I'm afraid. They don't have to be on apps, don't have to talk to underage girls, don't have to send underage girls images and videos and the certainly don't have to travel many many miles to meet what they believe is a 13 year old girl.

I'll save my sympathies for victims of these men

The more I read about these stings, the more I think that the people who perpetrate them and the people who defend the people who perpetrate them are somewhat lacking in inteligence.

Agreed, this is entirely obvious from watching the stings and reading the justifications.

thevanilla how was i not using my brain in that sentence

As significant proportion of MN is oddly pro-vigiliante justice. I've noticed this before. I've worked with criminologists before, who assure me it's not remotely helpful. For anyone, including the victims. Its just a way for people to feel emotionally vindicated and good about themselves. Pps are right that it's far more likely to result in trials being compromised and the offender - if there is one - going free.

I personally know of one man who was "caught' by paedophile hunters. The evidence was handed to the police and he was prosecuted and imprisoned. Sometimes the end justifies the means.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider I wasn't directing the last comment at you. I meant that the hunters should seek their desperately craved glory and validation elsewhere.

I'm not trying to change your opinion. It's a discussion. We don't need to agree.

Judging by the comments on the video
I saw, a lot of the supporters are somewhat lacking in intelligence or at least basic understanding of how the criminal justice system works. I don't sympathise with the perpetrators but I do support the need for a fair trial. And I do fully sympathise with the family members who knew nothing about it yet still find themselves in the firing line from a bunch of idiotic keyboard warriors and these glory hunting vigilantes.

Apparently the videos they take can mean that taking these offenders to court is impossible due to issues around right to a fair trial.

And that's fine it's when the Hunters ,blast the evidence all over the Internet jeopardising any fair trial it becomes a big problem .