To think there should be more controls on dogs and more banned breeds

[Merryclaire]

Just seen on the news that another young child has been killed by dogs - that must be at least 4 this year in the UK - there have been a number more that have thankfully not been fatal. Always seems to be (most often) a US bully or sometimes a husky. Why are there not more dog breeds being banned (especially the bully)? And why is there not more noise about dog ownership rules in general being tightened up?
For the record I have always liked dogs but these regular child attacks scare me.

I think I love you

There is a cult like worship of aggressive powerful dogs amd the owners are always minimising attacks, always defending the dog above anything

Pet dogs aren't even a natural product of evoluton. They've been inbred for millenia to have certain traits, including aggression. Many of them have severe physical and mental deformities due to inbreeding. Some are in constant pain

...and instead of suggesting ways of protecting children from these aggresive amd powerful dogs. They lobby for LESS restriction on dogs, less laws. They want more dogs, and many more aggresive dogs. They want no restriction on breeds at all

Someone need to switch you off @flaxmeadow. What are you going on about. Who are you even talking about? Do these people have secret meetings?

Mumsnet is dotty about dogs. They're more important than hoomans doncha know.

I assume that the pro dog rights posters on this thread aren’t the kind of owners of the types of dogs this thread was aimed at.
In my view, tighter restrictions on breeding, selling and owning dogs benefits dog owners as much as anyone else. Because you will have more assurance about the dog you are buying, clueless buyers shouldn’t end up with a completely inappropriate dog - and if they do they will be made to train it - and people and dogs will face less threat of being attacked by dangerously out of control dogs.
As far as I’m concerned the only losers should be bad breeders and bad owners.

There may be a 'cult of worship of aggressive dogs' in a small minority of people but the majority of dog owners want an affectionate obedient companion. And there are a myriad of purposes dogs have been bred for- you wouldn't want an aggressive Border Collie that would herd sheep and then attack them as an example (yes, I am a BC fan), or an aggressive Labrador or Golden Retriever guide dog. I'm afraid you are losing any good points you might make (E.g extreme breeding leading to deformed and unhealthy dogs) in all the conspiracy theory stuff.

@Lansonmaid
What conspiracy theory stuff?

There is a cult like side of it tbf. Look at all the bully breeders on youtube who sell puppies for thousands. Also plenty of videos showing 'defence' dogs that are trained to grab onto an arm etc. Every bully owner I've met has been a bit of a chav if I'm honest.

Interesting video on frustration at the lack of awareness about dangerous dogs
From a former dog owner.

How do you know it hasnt prevented dog attacks?
It hasnt stopped them but it may have prevented attacks which might have occurred.

Yes any breed can be aggressive but powerful dogs cause much more damage and are much less likely to let go of the victim. Pitbull type dogs even release pain inhibiting hormones when they attack and often won't let go even when beaten with sticks and bricks etc. The power of the bite and inability to let go is what makes attacks by powerful breeds more fatal and rescue efforts less successful.

People always say its the owner not the dog but how do we control the owners? Many attacks on children happen in apparently normal homes and parents swear the dog wasn't train to be aggressive and was treated properly like a family member. Maybe there were mistakes made but my point is they weren't obvious.

I think people should have training and licence to own midium and larger dogs but I also believe fighting dogs should absolutely be banned because there is no foolproof way to make sure they are in the right hands. A right to own a certain breed should never come at the expense of people's safety, especially children.

And going by the popularity of "cute" pictures and videos with big dogs "cuddling", "kissing" small children, majority of people have no idea about dog's body language and how to socialise dogs with kids. It's not only abusive or neglectful people who make bad owners.

Pitbulls do not release any magical pain inhibiting hormones - they like all dogs in fact, all of us, experience a rise in adrenaline and other stress hormones that adds to a fairly high pain threshold, which many dogs have been bred for (not just bull breed types, most working breeds have).

They also don't have any inherent 'inability to let go', they're just good at hanging on.

Banning 'fighting dogs' might sound like a great plan - but humans will absolutely try to create some sort of combative, macho 'tough' animal they can pit against another, no matter what you do. Hence cock fighting, fish fighting, horse fighting... all still exist.

It won't stop children being injured or killed by dogs though - none of the kids killed in the last 20 years has been killed by an actual pit fighting dog. Nor even by one bred from pit fighting dogs.

Educating people properly on how to handle, live with and train a dog might help - but we're still happily sitting down to watch idiots push dogs around on tv and label them 'best trainer in britain' - and theres no requirement for our TV channels to show actual safe, sensible, science based training to the masses, its just FINE to promote dangerous methods that increase the risk of dangerous behaviour in dogs, because 'it's entertainment'.

Educating children on how to behave around dogs, what owning a dog means, how to train a dog, how to buy a dog - all dressed up as the various subjects necessary for the curriculum of course (biology, psychology, economics, PSE, maths, geography.. so many subjects!). But again, the anti-dog brigade shout that that is ridiculous... I disagree, it won't change the current generation of dog buying/owning public but would influence the NEXT one..

@WiddlinDiddlin you actually sound like you are defending pitbulls and putting the onus on children being educated to behave around dangerous dogs in the correct way. How the hell can a baby or toddler (the most likely victims) be educated to not provoke a dog?
You only have to look at the US where the vast majority of dog attacks are pitbulls. Just a few weeks ago a poor woman was torn to shreds by a stranger’s pitbulls and lost both arms.
I’m afraid it is the responsibility of all dog owners to learn how to train and control their dogs. It is not the responsibility of children or any strangers the dog may come across.
I do believe all children should be taught to respect animals but little ones are too young to grasp how to behave so as not to not provoke a dog.

Last night another child in the Greater Manchester area has been rushed to hopsital with serious injuries from a dog bite attack. This time it happened in a park.

It's not the baby or toddlers that need to know. It's their parents. And if they were shown how to treat dogs as children then they'd pass it on to their own

fwiw I did not read @WiddlinDiddlin 's post to be anything like that described.

I read it as

a) providing facts to correct the myths surrounding pitbulls rather than defending them.
b) recommending we educate FUTURE dog owners when they are still young, as so many people go on to own dogs (not victims)

I'm not sure I personally agree with b) and realise it's an emotive subject - and not one I've seen successfully debating on mn without insults being thrown - but I don't think widdlin is guilty as accused.

In the USA you have the insane situation in some schools where dog obsessives take their dog into schools to 'educate' children on how wondrous and therapeutic dogs are. In some cases these dogs have to be drugged with sedatives beforehand. There is an actual news report showing a drugged dog being petted by children in a classroom and we are supposed think this perfectly normal. This is where we're at now, dogs must everywhere and we must all learn to accept this nonsense

Sedative drugs used on dogs in America is widespread.

Dogs everywhere is spreading to the UK. Wilko shopping chain now allow any dog off leash in their stores. How long before an attack happens in a Wilko is anyones geuss, if it hasnt already happened. Wilko also sell food.

I'm in the UK and we regularly have a dog go into our school to teach the kids how to behave around and treat dogs.

Nothing but positives. Everyone I have spoken to agrees and the kids all love the dog. Not even a drugged dog!!

- none of the kids killed in the last 20 years has been killed by an actual pit fighting dog. Nor even by one bred from pit fighting dogs

Around half of fatal dog attacks are by pit bulls or bull types. Including in some cases Staffordshire bull terriers, a powerful breed of dog, notorious for its sustained unrelenting bite, often referred to by their owners as a 'nanny dog'

They weren't actual pit fighting dogs. I had a staffy. He was never bred for or involved in any pit fights. That is what the poster was saying.

Just a quick google
2013 Antrim child suffers severe facial injuries and mauled by teachers dog in school
2018 BC Canada child bitten, deep puncture wounds, in school by therapy dog
2018 Scotland child bitten by head teachers dog, in school
2019 Bakersfield, California child suffers severe facial injuries from dog in class

And many more

@AllThingsServeTheBeam

The quote was Nor even by one bred from pit fighting dogs

All bull types are 'bred from' pit fighting dogs from some point back in history. The whole point of these dogs was to savage other animals.

It isn't hard to recognise pit/bull type dogs. They have large blocky heads, large jaws. Muscular shoulders. In spite of owners naming them something else or the ever ready excuse of 'its a mix'. Its a well known tactic for owners to deny the breed but when you see one, you know

No they're not. You really should stop talking about things you clearly don't understand.

My dog is a border collie. Bred from working sheep dogs. If I bred him with the collie down the street those puppies would not be from working sheep dogs.

Get it?

In the West Midlands alone, in just one year (2021), there were 2 fatalities by bull types in separate incidents. One a Staffordshire bull terrier and the other by 2 pit bulls