To think there should be more controls on dogs and more banned breeds

[Merryclaire]

Just seen on the news that another young child has been killed by dogs - that must be at least 4 this year in the UK - there have been a number more that have thankfully not been fatal. Always seems to be (most often) a US bully or sometimes a husky. Why are there not more dog breeds being banned (especially the bully)? And why is there not more noise about dog ownership rules in general being tightened up?
For the record I have always liked dogs but these regular child attacks scare me.

Responsible owners already train their dogs, have them chipped, insured, pick up after them. Its the irresponsible ones that are more likely to become a problem.
I spend a lot of time and effort training my dog. She loves people but is not allowed to interact unless they want to. Her recall is not there yet partly due to her breed, so she stays on lead or longline.

Yet I know someone who has had numerous puppies, seems to think they train themselves and once they hit adolescence pita and are past cute stage they get either sold or given away. Their little girl was amazed at us still having the same dog when we saw them before lockdown and then after all the lockdowns.
I struggle to even interact with them
I'd be happy to pay for a licence but it won't stop bad owners or attacks. There has been a huge increase in dog ownership ergo incidents will rise.

The number of deaths is low, thankfully, but seems to be rising
Not really. Numbers have always been too low to reach this conclusion.

The list is very telling. All the sane type of dogs. Not one great dane, not one golden retriever, not a poodle, not a spaniel , not a Yorkshire terrier.

So why should all these dogs and the thousands more should be penalised for all the aggressive ones by being on the lead everywhere public? It makes no sense.

Your personal experience is frankly very bad luck. I've never been bitten, neither my OH, nor my friends and family but I can understand why you'd be on alert after such rare bad luck.

@AllThingsServeTheBeam I think you are trying to argue with a closed mind....
A few years ago we were asked to put our Border Collie on a lead on one of the very few beaches in North Cornwall which didn't have a seasonal dog ban because 'my daughter doesn't like dogs'. Well, 20 minutes up the road was a totally dog free beach, and it's not difficult to find which beaches have seasonal bans, so why come to a dog beach? For the record, our dog was no where near her and was obsessed with her ball, to the exclusion of anyone or anything else, and we could get her to go down and stay from about 50-60 feet away. But I will no doubt get flamed for this ....

Why not? You say your dog isn't dangerous but all dog owners say that. How does anyone else know?
What a strange thing g to say. Do you question if the guy passing you is a killer because a dog walker got shot by a crazy man walking his dog in a park not that long ago.

Do you assume anything around you might be dangerous? That's a horrible way to live.

My dog is a collie and I totally understand the situation when a ball is involved. The world could be ending and that tennis ball you have in your hand I the only thing that matters 😂 I don't know why I rise to flaxmeadow. I've argued with them for years! You are right. And they will never change my mind!

Yup - the dog that bit me was from a ramshackle local farm - two teenagers were with it at the time. I’ve been walking past on other occasions where other dogs from that farm have basically blocked the (public) road by charging out and growling.
DH was attacked while we were out for a walk along a local riverside. The owner eventually managed to call the dog back from across the field and then scarpered. Luckily he wasn’t badly hurt.
Two two dog attacks on the estate were loose dogs from a local traveler site (different occasions). One hurt much more than the other- police have basically ignored it.
The dog that was viciously attacked was when walking in local footpaths. The owner just didn’t know how to handle it.
The other one was in the family home - and it has made them very nervous about having the (fairly new) dog now.
Living rurally and being a keen walker does expose you to more dogs I think. The worst times are when you’re in the middle of nowhere and no owner is to be seen.
I do say hello to some lovely people and their dogs while out and about, but it can be a lottery.

Since when do we use the word leash in the UK?!

I disagree re. living rurally. I used to live rurally but am now in a large city, and I encounter far more dogs in the city.

I’ve been attacked twice in recent years. One incident was quite serious (although given that the pitbull-type dog tried and failed to bite my face, it could have been a lot worse). The other was pretty mild (small dog, on a lead, bite didn’t puncture my skin).

The terror that poor child must have felt.

It's heartbreaking another young life lost, all dogs have the potential to bite, the larger breeds have the strength to kill.

Most victims are children or elderly, it's up there one of the worst most terrifying ways to die.

Since when do we use the word leash in the UK?!

Lived in Scotland for 30 years and it's always been a leash.... is this another thing where English people assume an Americanism without joining the dots across the Atlantic?

Absolutely awful way to die

Not sure if this has been mentioned (couldn't get through all the multi-quoted posts) but it appears these were guard dogs.

According to Google there is quite a background on this farm. The owner (not naming but found online) has a history of stolen machinery and other crimes. The police did say not to speculate but it was also reported in this case again stolen machinery was found on the premises.

I just can’t understand why the previous attack on the young walker wasn’t taken further. The legislation is already there to have addressed dangerous dog behaviour at that time. But the police wouldn’t take it further. Horrific

For all the pisstaking upthread, I do strongly believe that existing legislation around guarding breeds/security breeds needs to be applied consistently. Guarding breeds doing a guarding ‘job’ are worlds away from an offlead Cockerpoo in a park.

@Saucery
Because dangerous dogs are not taken out of the community or from their owners anymore. Its scandalous but thats the truth of it.
I've read numerous posts online where people have complained of been bitten, even needed surgery, but the dog stays with the owner and there's nothing anyone can do about it

You only have to look on YouTube at all the videos of toddlers and children filmed with unpredictable dangerous high prey drive dogs like bull types, rottweilers, cane corso etc and see the insanity of whats going on in 'doggo' world. Millions of views and people constantly commenting that these aggressive beasts are cute. Disturbingly some of the dogs 'cuddling' children show signs of being uncomfortable but the idiot parents don't seem to care. Some of these videos have over 10 or even 20 million views

Mistakes are undoubtedly made, @Flaxmeadow but it’s not some huge ‘doggy world’ <snort> conspiracy. It’s regular human incompetence.

I do agree with you about the videos. I refuse to watch them and had a bit of an argument with a work colleague who showed me a photo of her dog with her grandchild sat astride him. Dogs are the most amazingly forbearing things and I’m surprised there aren’t more bites because stupid adults see them as live teddies and fail to protect both dc and the dogs.

Indeed. But all you ever get on MN is that more kids are killed by humans. That is true. And probably by cars (which of course are driven by humans too). But we put in place measures to minimise danger from cars, so we should put in measures to minimise danger from dogs, too.

We can't change that some humans are arseholes and will want to harm others.

We can change the rules about dog ownership. We should change the things we can control (to some extent).

And any breed can be threatening. I've just been out for a walk. Minding my own business. Walked past a lady with a small dog (don't know what breed). Thankfully on a lead/leash because it growled and went for me. Normally they just ignore me, which is how I like it.

@Saucery
I suppose that depends how you define conspiracy but there is certanily a powerful, heavily funded and active dog lobby, especially in the USA and unfortunately its increasing here too.
This would be
No bans on any pet dog breed at all, even a dog the size of a pony
No dog ever put down, even in the case of fatal attacks
The rehoming of dangerous dogs by charities by deceit, that is not being honest about the breed or the dogs history
Charities, solicitors, lobby groups that will defend a dog and its owner in court to the extent of preventing prosecution and prevent a dog being put down and encouraging it to be placed back in communities
In the USA even if a dog kills someone, lobby groups will protest it being put down through the courts. These idiots honestly believe that a dog that's killed can never ever be blamed and can be rehabilitated into a family home. In fact some of them even believe spaying dogs is genocide and any criticism of dogs is racism
They cannot face reality, that some dog breeds are genetically just too dangerous.

We’re not in the US and ‘rescues’ like Battersea and Dogs Trust are a bit too quick to PTS rather than put the work in ime. Dogs Trust prefer to keep their euthanasia at arm’s length though.
I believe in the right environment for the right dog. In the case of many serious and fatal attacks the right environment is missing, which leads to tragedy. I have my own thoughts about the case that sparked this thread off, but out of respect for the child who died I’m going to keep them to myself.
Shut Pets4Homes etc down, legislate breeders far more heavily than currently and take dog ownership much more seriously.

I have a friend who had a Presa Canario. Great big soppy thing, he was. Much loved but always, always treated like the large guarding breed he was. Not in this country, before anyone loses their shit

Any dog that bites someone should be put down immediately. This used to be the case years ago, why has this changed? Why is it seen as saying something controversial now?

Another thing is how aggressive and defensive dog owners are nowadays. If, in a discussion, you suggest a ban on more breeds or suggest stricter laws, eg leashes and public spaces, some dog owners go completely bonkers, as if you've said something really terrible or attacked them personally.

Don't we all want to reduce the life changing injuries and deaths from dog attacks?

I'm more for vetting of owners of 'dangerous' breeds than outright banning. If somebody has an aggressive breed but lives on a farm and trains/manages it well then there's no issue.

The main issue with bullies is the owners IMO. One of the builders I see regularly at work has one and mentioned the other day that it 'went for him' while he was play fighting with his brother and thankfully only managed to grab the edge of his coat, which it started ragdolling. He said "should've given him a whupping really" (meaning the dog).

It's these types of people that are the issue. From what he says the dog is around his young kids all the time and I always think that it's this type of situation that can end badly.

Although I also agree that strong bull breeds have an intrinsic risk factor attached just because of their tremendous strength.

Some people care more about aggressive powerful dogs, in some cases even banned dogs, than they do about the safety of children and nothing is being done about it. Everytime a serious injury or death happens, nothing changes.

That's the terrible truth of it.

No I don't agree with any dog ever that bites needs to be put down. It completely depends on the situation in which the dog bit.

It was the same years ago too.

Let me explain.

Currently, 4 breeds, and their crossbreeds and 'pitbull types' are banned. If you simply ban a breed, then people crossbreed and say 'well it's not xyz breed'... so the ban is appearance based, not DNA based.

However this means you can buy a cross breed or indeed a pedigree of certain breeds, and if it LOOKS like a banned type, then it is illegal, you are now a criminal.

So you go out and buy a labrador x staffy, in six months time your puppy and two or three others from the litter fits the criteria for 'pitbull type', but the other 8 don't. You are a now a criminal.. the buyers of the non-type puppies are not.

Fair? Useful? No.

So we have more illegal type dogs now because you can 'make' an illegal dog by breeding two legal dogs together.

Three of those breeds were never or almost never seen in the UK at the time of that ban - but it looked 'good' like the government were doing something useful, to ban four breeds - four breeds unrecognised by the UK kennel club, three of whom had not been seen here at the time and were not involved in any of the then recent dog attacks.

Breed Specific Legislation does not work - the proof of that is in the rise in incidents involve dogs injuring and killing. If it worked... we wouldn't be seeing this.

So how does doing MORE of a thing that has had over 30 years to work... and hasn't worked... work?

If you go back to the start of the pandemic, and listened to what dog trainers and behaviourists were saying at the rise in prices of puppies and in sales of dogs/purchases of dogs during lockdown though... we predicted this rise in dog attack cases back then.

Because the common denominator in dog attacks is... people.

People who don't understand dogs, haven't the time for dogs, haven't the ability to train dogs, who use heavy handed aversive methods they see on TV as a result, buy dogs from the wrong places, on a whim, in a rush, for all the wrong reasons.

They are the problem. They have always been the problem. Very very few, an infinitesimally small number of dog attacks, have occurred with dogs bought from decent breeders, sold to people who know what they're doing - and in those cases there is some mitigating circumstance as well, some stressful change to normal routine, some stressor on the dog.

The bottom line is, well trained, well bred dogs with responsible owners do not attack and kill people, no matter what breed they are.

Young dogs explore the world via their mouth. It is mostly just mouthing and nipping. If it is aggressive, it is because they don't know any better. You can nip it in the bud but swapping one item for another. Dogs have their own language. They should not be punished if you can't be assed to learn it.