Postman kicking dog

[Lokiju]

Daily Fail article (I know, I know, but I can't sleep) about a postie kicking a dog. Doorbell video shows the incident - I can see why he did it.

Small terrier type dog running toward him, looks like a purely instinctive defensive kick - I think the owners here were irresponsible and should have had their dog under control.

Poor dog was defending the property, but poor Postman defending himself.

It's horrible the dog was kicked (I love dogs, I have my own and foster) but 33 posties are attacked by dogs every week apparently - they should be allowed to defend themselves.

@TeaBug

Which is absolutely fair enough for him to do isn’t it?

Just seen the video

It doesn’t seem unnecessarily harder but like a PP said, we don’t see the dog running towards him. Only after it’s been kicked.

Little dogs can do harm to people too and I have two little dogs.

Which is absolutely fair enough for him to do isn’t it?

Of course. I agree. A lot of people are missing the point that it actually did bite him.

Terriers can be little shits. We have one and we love him very much, but he's bitten a few delivery drivers in his time and now we have a bin by the gate for deliveries to be put into so they don't need to come in. We also keep an eye on the gate when the dogs out to make sure nobody comes in because we know he'll have them.
My DH is a postman and has been bitten a few times (and he loves dogs). The bites invariably end up infected and he has to take really strong antibiotics that cause liver damage, so it's quite a big deal. They all say terriers are the worst for it. I can't imagine my DH kicking a dog, but maybe this particular one already has a reputation at the sorting office and his owners don't even try to stop it happening.

Never going to happen, so you'll have to crack on with dogs being around!

I think excessive forces was used.

Looked proportionate to me. The people saying the dog went 'flying' obviously haven't seen the video, it sort of skids and rolls along the floor, it doesn't go up into the air. That implies to me that the kick didn't have any wind up to it, because the dog was already very close to/attached to his foot already.

@Blarting

by the dog? Yes I totally agree

I'm normally the first person to defend animal abuse, but this ain't it. The dog had it coming, he ran up behind him and he was instinctively kicked away. It doesn't look like disproportionate force at all.

I think people are getting upset because they have beloved dogs like this. He didn't appear hurt. The postman wasn't a psychopath whacking an animal about like Zouma or horse lady. The dog is fine, he needs to be trained better or kept away.

The dog rolls along the floor about 12 or 15 feet- it was no where near proportional. I get the feeling the postie hates dogs, and got caught out because these people just so happened to have a camera.
the dog was loose because a child answered the door not the adult and had to watch the whole thing, the poor kid is devastated.

Oh and apparently the dog isn’t fine, the owners are saying it is now terrified every time the door bell rings and starts wetting itself. And the poor kid who answered the door is still beside themselves

It doesn't matter - the dog bit the postman on the ankle and was displaying aggressive behaviour. Legally speaking, it was dangerously out of control.

If you don't want your dog getting kicked or injured, keep it under control, and I say that as a dog owner. If you have a dog that runs out, don't allow your child to open the door unsupervised and put the dog behind a baby gate.

Well the owners shouldn't have had an out of control dog in the first place, then.

The postman didn't walk down the road and kick the dog for no reason - he was being attacked and took a bite on the ankle because the owners failed to control their dog.

The owners are lucky their dog hasn't been taken off them and PTS.

I watched the video and the force of the kick was entirely unjustified.

We only have the posties word for it that he got nipped. He didn’t report an incident. The dog biting him conveniently got mentioned after the video was released and the complaint was made.
most people if they were bitten by a dog in the line of work would report it immediately so that provisions could be put in place for their safety in future.

But whether he got bitten or not is actually irrelevant in law.

The law states that your dog is considered dangerously out of control if someone thinks they might get bitten.

And that applies in both in public and on private property - from the government website:

It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control anywhere, such as:

in a public place
in a private place, for example a neighbour’s house or garden
in the owner’s home

The law applies to all dogs.

"Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them"

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/print

They're also very lucky they didn't lose their dog.

You can get an unlimited fine or be sent to prison for up to 6 months (or both) if your dog is dangerously out of control. You may not be allowed to own a dog in the future and your dog may be destroyed.

When some dog is going for your ankles, you don't have time to make a precise assessment of the exact amount of force required. You just do what is necessary to make yourself safe.

How do you know? The Royal Mail hasn't said one way or the other. The process of putting in a report of a dog attack is a different one from the process of dealing with a customer complaint.

I doubt that’s actually possible. He kicked that dog so hard it travelled several yards. I’m astonished at the number of people defending him. I, too, hope he’s sacked. Not that it will help the dog who apparently shakes and wets itself when someone knocks on the door of its home now - the place it’s supposed to feel safe.

The dog wets itself. I'm not sure that's the postman's fault. I'm sure now that it's affecting them, the owners will try and change their dogs behaviour.

In a split second, he kicked away a dog who personally bit him. It came to no physical harm, so it was not disproportionate.

The dog bit a human, and the owners didn't or couldn't control it. They're lucky the postman only kicked it off him, and didn't get it put down.

Why should he get sacked? The incident is entirely the fault of the owners.

They failed the dog by not having it under control, so the consequences of the dog beingallegedly frightened is theirs to deal with.

Everyone should be able to carry out their jobs without fear of harm. This postman defended himself automatically, why should he allow the dog to continue its attack?

I love dogs. I own a dog and I work with dogs.

Legally speaking, the dog was out of control and you are allowed to defend yourself against a dangerous animal.

If, as an owner, you are going to allow your dog to shoot out of your property, snap and snarl around people and bite them on the ankles, you need to be ready to deal with the consequences of that. If a dog bit me on the ankle, I'm pretty sure my instinct would be to kick out and get it off me. I wouldn't be thinking about using the "right amount force" - I'd be thinking about getting the biting animal off my ankle.

The owners have nobody to blame but themselves for the fact that their dog is now scared of doorbells. Owning a dog is (or should be) seen as a huge responsibility and that means having your dog under control at all times - including on your own property (as per the law).

Im a dog owner and i think it was the owners fault! It should have been kept under control! The postman kicked out instinctively and for all we know he could have a fear of dogs!

Tamzo85 so all fears have to be rational and men are pathetic for having them. Really?. Hope you get this much sympathy next time you are scared of something.

@SarahSissions

oh well 🤷‍♀️ I’ve got zero sympathy

my sympathy lies with the person who was bitten