Declined for a role due to being uncomfortable/awkward, help

[Makingplansfornigel1]

It was through an agency actually. I'm qualified as a teacher (apparently "outstanding") however I sometimes I wonder how.
Anyway I had a trial day as a HLTA/cover teacher in a nice primary school the other day.
I was with a year 2 class who were a bit rowdy, surely it's as I was a new face to them. Naturally I was a bit nervous/stressed but I tried to be friendly yet firm. I praised them but also employed the behaviour policy, using C1s/c2s, moving pupils, speaking to them about behaviour etc.
The 2 TAs also supported and guided, which was appreciated.
The headteacher didn't see me teach at any point, nor did any senior staff, only the 2 TAs.
They seemed friendly TAs telling me, oh you'll be fine here, it's a lovely school etc. And seemed supportive.
Anyway I had a phone call today from my agency telling me that they had decided not to take me on for the role as I had essentially seemed 'uncomfortable and awkward' with the children.
I presume the head decided this, however only the TAs saw me with the kids so I presume they fed back to the head.
I understand if they don't think I'm a good fit, however naturally disappointed as it was a really well-paying role. Luckily I have managed to get other work for at least next week.
I think the head or a member of SLT should have also observed me before making a decision, not just the TAs.

I was certainly a little nervous and the kids will naturally play up but I don't understand the uncomfortable/awkward thing.
I've had it before where I've been told I seemed 'nervous' even if I felt fairly relaxed.
Maybe I've just got a nervous disposition but I'm not sure what I can do about it.
The TAs were obviously trying to be friendly if not very genuine.
Anyway not sure what to make of this feedback and how to avoid it in future?

You described yourself (in class) as "nervous and stressed"; and the children as a bit rowdy and playing up.

As a teacher, I'd expect a class of yr 2's in "a nice school" (with 2 familiar TA's present) to be pretty easy going. Not given to playing up an unfamiliar teacher.

The TA';s must know the class well and be well aware of its normal atmosphere . IF a normally easy class turned "rowdy and playing up", that suggests that they were badly unsettled by your nerves and stress.

TA's are not there to "guide" the class teacher. " Awkward and uncomfortable with the children " sounds as if it's your handling of the children that sunk your prospects.

Another interpretation might be, that the class were in fact behaving perfectly normally for Y2 , and you were still at sea despite the TA';s efforts to support and guide you. Had you taken a Y2 class before?

Very hard to judge after one day. The right role is out for you, keep going and find somewhere lovely. Feels like a kick in the teeth- I went into a supply job short term and never gelled with it .

but I think for permanent HLTAs it would be something around 20-23k PA

You are right about the salary but in my experience this is often pro-rata and doesn’t include holidays or breaks so can be a lot less money.

I have had quite a lot of experience with teaching interviews and they are brutal.
You may have done something wrong but it may just be that someone else scored higher on something that you did.

I was working in a school for 2 years on a long-term temporary contract. I had nothing but positive comments and I had outstanding observations.
At the end of the 2 years they interviewed for a permanent position which I of course went for and assumed I would get but they instead went for an NQT who had no paid employment experience simply because they went to a better university than I did.
They lasted less than a term.

Please just give me something i could have done to very quickly build rapport, outside of using names, praise, positive reinforcement. Etc

'For example, if you'd stood at the door and welcomed every child and offered a handshake or a high 5 at their level, as you told them your name and why you're there, or walked in and asked "Who want's Haribo!/stickers/dojo points/whatever" you've immediately got their attention and they're engaging with you'

Dear God.

Rapport is tricky, sometimes I think you’ve either got what it takes to build rapport with a particular cohort of kids or you don’t. I don’t think it’s something you can be given tips for, either you can do it naturally (with a particular cohort) or you can’t. Just because it wasn’t natural with this class doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be with another.

That said I guess when I’m building a rapport with new kids I think it’s important to go just outside of generic praise/ positive reinforcement. You need to build a rapport based on personality, so things like taking an interest in what they’re reading/ playing at playtime/ the character on their bag, giving opportunities for them to bring in things from their life (Eg: in guided reading when there is a mention of pets tell them you have a cat and invite them to talk about their pets briefly) etc. Little kids generally love to show off about their real lives and take pride in the things they like or have at home etc so I guess that would be the kind of thing I would seek to do. You need to build some sort of relationship outside of just delivering the lesson content.

I think it’s quite normal for schools to do this. I wouldn’t over think it, it obviously wasn’t the right fit for you. I used to be really nervous at the start, I built my confidence doing agency work, once I did so many different schools I found it less intimidating. Keep temping and you’ll find the right school.

I've had similar experiences as I do some ad hoc teaching at a local university and have been lecturing in my professional subject for years and know it really well. New tutorial group last year in a difficult subject and loe and behold, complaints were made by the group rep about me. It was an online class too due to lockdown. Not that I lacked confidence, but that they thought I was disorganised and didn't like the colour of my background! I mean, seriously? I think what they objected to really was that I made them answer some of the questions, rather than me just reading out the answers.

Of course, by the end of the semester, they loved me but I had to go through a couple of hours of discussion with the course leader in my own time (which I wasn't paid for) and as a result, have decided to decline future offers of lecturing. Its not worth the hassle.

I found it quite a harmful experience and I very much doubt that a male lecturer would have been subjected to the same comments. Strangely enough, in my professional role, I have had formal extensive training in public speaking and using my voice.

It can also be based on locality. If you don't have the exact manner of speech people are used to in a particular city or area then sometimes you can be perceived as not fitting in.

You can of course do that sort of fake banter with the students, asking them about themselves, making them feel important, etc but thats wasting time they should be educated in.

I'm a teacher/TA and with all due respect, if you go in nervous then things only go downhill. The kids only play up for cover teachers that can't command control. In fact, if they play up for you because you are new then you just don't have it, because in my experience you start how you mean to go on and playing up for you on the first day is a sure sign you can't command their attention.

Going against the grain, I think it is fairly easy to see whether someone had the confidence and assertiveness to manage a class or not. The TAs would be well able to spot it, though someone from outside the class should also have observed you

It might be that you are suited to older primary children or just weren't having a good day. Or, some classes just need controlling and a sergeant major type might be what they were looking for.

You can of course do that sort of fake banter with the students, asking them about themselves, making them feel important, etc but thats wasting time they should be educated in.

If someone is seeing asking about the kids as fake banter and is generally not interested in getting to know the children then they probably shouldn’t be teaching infant school kids. This was a Y2 class not a class of university students. If someone don’t have an interest in the children as individuals they’re not going to be a good practitioner because primary school education is about so much more than just curriculum content! You have to get the kids engaged and interested in you or you are never going to hold the attention of 6 and 7 year olds. That’s why I said really you either have the rapport or you don’t; if you’re faking it with kids it’s never going to work. You absolutely need to have some interest in them and be willing to engage with them outside just curriculum content, plus in KS1 speaking and listening skills are part of the curriculum. The students being able to expand on and talk about things related to the lesson content and being able to retell events etc is part of educating them, and yes that can include being able to talk about pets or holidays or what they did at the weekend etc.

C1s and C2s
So Delta or Outwood or has the trend in primary spread further?

Supply agencies are a world of their own. They make huge commissions if they match someone to a long-term job and are keep to upsell this as much as possible. If they know I've got a vacancy, then they'll send people on regular daily bookings telling me they'd be great for the role (but I'd much rather recruit directly without the fee). The supply teacher can be under the impression they're on a trial day, when they're not really. I might go and have a look if I have the time, but if I've got a pile of normal applications I equally might not - I didn't ask for a trial day!

They'll also fill up the diary with "likely candidates" for separate supply bookings over the week and not tell the candidate on Thursday that I appointed the one on Monday ...

Assuming this wasn't a "free" trial day (in which case the agency should be billing the school and paying you), the chances are it wasn't really and that they then phoned back the HT to ask how you did and the HT just repeated what the TA had told them.

This 100%

I feel like just giving up as I never managed to secure an ECT role and probably never will now as i graduated from the PGCE 6 years ago.
I know I can work as a TA but it just doesn't pay much money.
I can't be that rubbish If I got "outstanding" at PGCE and got the best marks on the placement apparently.
But this sort of stuff is demoralising.
Had many rejected applications, Interview where there was someone stronger than me or I just wasn't what they wanted/did something wrong.
Rejected for a permanent hlta role as i 'didn't have enough experience'
Rejected for another hlta role for exactly the same reason.
As i mentioned securing TA work on supply is much easier but £300 a week net isn't enough to live on.

I think I need to accept that I'm never going to make it as a school teacher or even a cover Supervisor.

I've had it before where I've been told I seemed 'nervous' even if I felt fairly relaxed.

^ this stands out to me. I think you're giving off a vibe and they think the children will or do pick up on it maybe? Have you ever asked for very specific feedback on what behaviour is making them think this?

I made it quite clear in my post that I was replying to another university lecturer about university lecturing, and the point was that women can be judged on this sort of thing more strongly than men. At least I've never heard of it happening to a male lecturer, but I know it happens to female lecturers that I know relatively frequently.

I don't need you to explain to me that children are difficult from adults; its a different but related point I was making.

Please do not give up.
Chances are, its nothing to do with your teaching.

I am one that shows emotions on my face. Very often I have people asking me if I am ok. I must walk around with a worried expression on my face!!!

Everyone has first day nerves with teaching. I reckon they had someone ear marked for the post and just made up a reason to tell the agency.

The school may have been alert to the lack of induction and they may not be in a position to deliver ECT induction or that they need someone who has more experience.

Are you able to explain to the agency your urgent need to get an ECT role so as to complete your induction?

Are you applying for roles yourself or just relying on an agency to help you?

That's true, but this was for a HLTA role so didn't need a completed ECT, if I'm right?
I gave up applying for roles due to constant rejection but I should maybe start again.

Do you mind me asking why you think securing an ECT role since your PGCE has been so tricky? Have you taken time out for anything eg maternity?

Have you thought of finding a teacher mentor to give you some coaching on how to not appear nervous, to assume immediate authority with a bunch of kids and how to build that rapport?

Something like public speaking classes might help build your confidence in front of a class.