‘The girls’ and The boys’ can…is this OK?

[Shamplade]

AIBU to think this isn’t ok?

Class teachers will say things like:

’the girls have been good so can…’

’I trust the girls to…’

I don’t think they should be lumping kids into a homogeneous group based on any physical attribute. I think it sends implicit messages that boys are X and girls are Y.

It may be true that the the girls are better behaved in the class but stating it like this, surely creates division and a self-fulfilling prophecy?

AIBU to want to call the school out on this?

Actually I think labelling children as sensible vs disruptive/naughty etc creates exactly the same kind of groups. I think it just shouldn't be the case in schools at all not that sensible kids should be with other sensible kids. My son (would be labelled as sensible I guess) is one of the top in his class but he often gets paired with a boy who is 'disruptive' in many parents eyes because he actually got an ADHD but because he is fluent in 2 languages, very active parents just think he is a 'bad kid'. Yet my son compliments him a lot and tells me 'how X is trying so hard to be more gentle and how he is doing so much better now, so I make sure the teacher gives him a sticker for that'. I believe that is why children put different kids together.

Meant to say teachers pair kids who are different with one another.

Such a shame! Kids are individuals and they shouldn't be encouraged to group themselves based on sex (the "good" girls and the "naughty" boys). Children take these things to heart too. When my DC's nursery split into 3 bubbles during Covid, my DC used to whisper things in my ear like, "She's in the Blue group. We don't play with them", as if there was something tainted about the other groups. It made me quite sad.

You're wasting your time trying to discuss ay school issues on MN as schools/teachers can never be wrong.

This definitely happens at my DCs school, it is lazy and wrong. They did a school survey and my sons whole boys class complained about this. They are punished as a whole group and also told they can't do certain break time activities that the girls are allowed to do. They should punish the specific children.

Sometimes it is scary how obviously they treat the boys differently from the girls. I assume it is in an attempt to make the girls equal when in fact they go too much the other way.

One example is that a few parents complained as a female teacher kept walking into the boys changing room (13/14 yos) and we were told its because the boys misbehave so she had to (there was no incident at all, they were talking too loudly before school when getting changed. After this happened, a male teacher went into the girls changing room and was been suspended. I even said to the school they would treat the girls differently if it had been the other way round. I don't see how it should be treated differently but even as parents we have been conditioned to think it's OK.

I assume it is in an attempt to make the girls equal when in fact they go too much the other way

what do you mean, to make the girls ‘equal’?

That sounds like a positive pairing.
My very quiet 8 year old has been put next to a boy who stabs her with pencils and calls her a ‘fucking idiot’.

This happened at a secondary school my son went to and I eventually pulled him out because the teachers seemed to punish all the boys not just the boys mis-behaving, they’d have to line up outside whilst the teacher told them off which was mostly her repeating the same thing, this happened for a good 20 minutes and he was often asked to go and fetch teachers if students were causing issues in the classroom, when he should have been doing his work, not running around for teachers. Some time after we pulled him out, the school went into special measures, following an Ofsted report, I’ve heard it’s a much better school now though.

@ReadyToMoveIt sorry really badly worded,I haven't slept well! I meant quite rightly to ensure that girls are treated how they should be and to ensure they are not treated in a lesser way than the boys (which as we know happens regularly in the workplace etc). I didn't mean it in a derogatory way at all. I have tried to explain to my boys that there is a big issue with women not being treated equally and that perhaps the school are trying to ensure this is not the case but it does seem its at the detriment of the boys. Until about 2 years ago the school taught girls and boys separately for all core subjects and for tutor groups. It's is now mixed so we are hoping over time this will improve how they treat groups of boys and girls as a whole.

HNRTT but you're right OP. Where would the teacher be without helpful feedback. Would it be better to read all the girls names individually then the boys names or would that be too degrading? Perhaps alternate with Alicia - well done. Alexander - well done but try a little harder not to... still well done?

Let's hope the boys' parents all say the same rather than spending that time talking with their children about behaviour and supporting the teacher?

Girls do better in single sex classes.
Boys do better in mixed sex classes.

I was a teacher for 27 years. I don’t have any fixed opinions, but ime experience, boys are low level disruptive sometimes as are girls. But at KS4, if a girl wants to be disruptive, she’ll be very disruptive. Boys are calmer.

Say what you want, l taught classes that had very polarised sex divisions due to the nature of the subject. The difference between the two were astounding.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow it worked really well for learning at my DCs school, it definitely felt that the boys were less targeted. As I mentioned before, now they are mixed hopefully in time they will figure it out better.

If there are girls and boys in the class what's the issue. And yes, I know the perceived issue and am not falling for the goading. It will give the staff room a giggle if you complain.

I agree OP. I have a son who never once in his life caused trouble in class because that’s just not his nature (I also have one who was a total PITA at primary, so it’s not just me favouriting my child) and he used to get very frustrated at being lumped in with ‘the boys’. Same goes for one of my girls who was not chatty but hearing ‘girls stop chatting’ was annoying for her. I did raise it. Not much changed though 🙄

Boys and girls both chat though. I wouldn’t separate the two.

I don’t disagree. That’s why I used quotation marks for the word sensible. I’m not labelling the kids, but the school are.

Your son sounds like a lovely boy, but I would query whether it’s his job to be pointing out to the teacher that another child’s behaviour is improving. Surely the teacher shouldn’t need a pupil to monitor that? Also, it’s great that your son is happy with the status quo but my kids were both upset that they were well-behaved yet because they were put with other children who weren’t so well behaved (for whatever reason) they were never able to sit with their friends.

Expecting some children to assist and police the behaviour of others is bound to cause upset and resentment. Surely there is a better way - such as teachers doing their job without relying on assistance from unofficial child helpers.

This is appalling and in your situation I would be looking to take the changing room complaint further. This would absolutely not happen with girls and it shouldn’t happen to boys either.

If every boy in a class is causing trouble and every girl is an angel then that would suggest that their are issues with the way they are being taught.

Surely there is a better way - such as teachers doing their job without relying on assistance from unofficial child helpers

The advice we were given by our leadership team was to do the above. If a loud boy isn’t sat with his friend, then his behaviour is better. When doing seating plans, I’ve also sat naughty girls next to quiet boys. It’s better for the class to have a quieter atmosphere.

No one is expecting a child to police another’s behaviour. It’s about spreading troublesome pupils ( boys and girls) across a class and away from people who will distract them.

I get the idea in theory. As I said above, this has lead to my very quiet child being sat next to a boy who stabs her with pencils, swears at her and scribbles on her work.

If every boy in a class is causing trouble and every girl is an angel then that would suggest that their are issues with the way they are being taught

The issue is how schools are set up in Britain. Children start formal learning way too early. Boys often learn better with hands on practical activities, but of course there’s no money to fund this, so pupils have to share one text book between 3.

There needs to be more active exploration and investigation in schools and less chalk and talk, but the government won’t fund thus.

I don’t know whether it’s society or brain structure, but boys and girls do present differently in school. It’s not really down to the teacher.

@PugInTheHouse

that is an equally generalised statement to the one OP is moaning about. As a teacher I would raise it if my child’s class teacher was saying statements like that!

You're right and actually this thread has been pleasantly surprising, I was being satcastic though, many posts about any school issues do result in everyone piling in on the OP though. However, nearly half of the voters disagree with the OP, I don't really understand how anyone thinks this is OK.

It isn't always obvious why people vote.
The OP asked about whether she should 'call the school out', which I interpret to mean crossly complain (I'm never quite sure what 'call out' means). My instinctive reaction is to hardly ever crossly complain in the first instance, but to 'politely raise'.

I’m disappointed this post is not about apostrophes.