Bus lane fine! With pics.

[SunnyPineapple]

I just received a fine for going in this bus lane but think I should try to appeal it retrospectively ( DH says I can’t, as the leasing company have already paid it).

I was indicating left to get in lane to take the left turn, when a car undertook me meaning I had nowhere to go. My choices were:
A Stop dead well before the traffic lights and wait for him to pass
B carry on changing lane, across his path and hope he stopped
C Hold my path for a split second longer and move in behind him.

I chose C and clearly entered the bus lane for a second.

AIBU to think that this bus lane set is grossly unfair and maybe even unlawful because:
1 The lane for left turns only exists from the bus stop bay onwards ( there is no lane before the bus stop, it’s just a bay - you can see the bus stop markings in one of the pics). So drivers have a very short distance of a few meters to get in lane.
2 Surely bus lanes aren’t allowed to suddenly appear forcing motorists to change lane just before a set of lights.
3 The blue sign on the roadside seems to contradict the road markings ( the sign implies you can’t be in the left turn lane yet the road markings suggest the opposite!)

So AIBU? WWYD?

Also surely you slowed right down by that point anyway, how fast were you going that you would have had to do an emergency stop to be able to go in behind the other car?

Also wondering this. Surely it's not an emergency stop at those sort of speeds approaching traffic lights?

Oh, but didn’t you say the fine has already been paid? Looks like it’s too late to appeal.
”As soon as you pay a penalty charge notice (PCN), the council will close the case and you won’t be able to appeal. Making your initial appeal is free.”

But I’m with you OP, I think you did the right thing to avoid an accident from happening and shouldn’t have been fined.

Exactly what @InkySquid said. I also don't understand why you hadn't already moved to the left lane as that would be the natural thing to to. He didn't actually undertake you, he was in the lane to turn left and you were in the lane to go straight on. The angle of the line on the floor indicates that people in that lane are assumed to be needed to filter to the right lane. You got it wrong on this one op.

Unless the traffic lights were green and the speed limit is 40 or 50. People tend to speed up even more in those cases because they want to get through before they change.

So the car behind you just moved into the left hand lane first and then went past you?

Sounds like you we were slow moving across/not indicating and so the car behind you has just gone up your left, and rather than just slowing/stopping and moving across you've gone into the bus lane.

Suck it up, frankly.

Sounds like you didn't get in lane quick enough. You should have moved over as soon as the left lane appeared, then it would have been impossible to be undertook.

It doesn't even sound like he was undertaking, but got in lane at the correct time and assumed you were not going to turn left.

Okay to answer a few questions:

• ‘Sudden and unexpected stop causing a danger to anyone behind’ would’ve been a better term than emergency stop. I wasn’t going fast but it’d have felt odd stop in the middle of the dual carriage way on a green light


• I don’t know the road . I did my mirror signal and manoeuvre as soon as the layout became evident but was undertaken at speed so had nowhere to go.

I suppose my point is about the ridiculous layout that is potentially quite dangerous as I can’t ever remember seeing a dual carriageway lane disappearing in quite that way.

Thank you for the comments about appealing the transgression by avoiding a collision.

I’m obviously in a minority… would no one else have an issue with the blue sign?

Thank you @Discovereads !

Totally this.

We have plenty of roads around here this this layout: you wait until the light turns green, the car in front turns left and then you go into the left lane….it’s not hard!

@Giraffesandbottoms the lights were already green.

@CapMarvel @catstale I accept that you think that is what happened but I was indicating and he undertook at speed. Not sure why I’d lie! My drawing makes it look like I tried to move over later than I did.

How could he have undertaken you? From that drawing, he must have been behind you in the LH lane before the bus stop, you presumably knew you needed to turn left, so would have indicated and gone into the very LH lane at the bus stop. It looks like you’ve tried to change lanes too late, he’s not actually undertaken you, he’s just driven into the correct lane for turning left.

Ah, I thought the bus lane was to the left of you. Having seen the diagram I don't understand why you left it so late to move over (you are usually allowed to drive through marked bus stops), and unless there was a bus behind you right up your arse then of course you should have stopped. Any car behind you in that lane would need to move left or right anyway.

Sorry but this is entirely your fault.

So was the undertaking car behind you? Then zoomed round you?

But if you'd moved to the left lane at the correct place, he physically couldn't have 'undertaken' you unless he went up the pavement! He got into the left turn lane... you got into it late and had to wait for cars in that lane to pass. I don't understand how you're not understanding this?!

@Soontobe60 by bring a discourteous driver (who clearly knew the layout a bit better and was milliseconds quicker off the mark with the lane change ) who nipped around me whilst I was already indicating.

It is possible for me to have been responding appropriately to the signs AND for also for someone who wants to be pushy to get ahead. Has you never experienced another driver like that?

My issue with the layout is that it seems not to provide a safe or logical place to wait for the left lane to be clear (like you would get with a slip road).

*being discourteous (not bring)

@wishitwasaduvetday I do understand. See post above to @Soontobe60

I'm now struggling to understand how you were both indicating at an early point (you say before the other driver moved into the left lane), therefore you knew you needed to move over to turn left; yet you also ended up so close to the bus lane at the point of being undertook, that stopping short of it would have potentially caused a crash.

Looking at your first photo in the OP, I'm struggling to put the two together - it seems that you had plenty of space and time between becoming aware of needing to move across and indicating your intention to do so, and stopping completely (before the bus lane) when it became apparent this wasn't possible due to the other driver.

YABU

There would have been signage in advance, you left it too late to pull over, you should have stopped until it was safe to go left

As there was a bus lane in front of you, presumably there was nobody behind you

If you needed to be in the left hand lane, then of course you should have stopped until it was safe to merge, not just continued forward.

There are lots of scenarios where you have to stop and hold-up free-flowing traffic to turn off, this is just another one of those to me?

Yes, ideally the other driver should have slowed and allowed you to move before turning themselves, but it's not a reason to carry on driving somewhere you shouldn't be.

@lancsgirl85 I’ve checked a scale map. ..the bus stop bay is 85m from the traffic lights (less to the start of bus lane). At a speed of 30 miles an hour I’d have had less than 5 seconds to change lane. Because he nipped around me, he was parallel with me during the time I was trying to move across. I think that (A) no one believes me about the other driver being cheeky and (B ) people think the distance/ time for the lane change was greater than it is.

@coffeecupsandfairylights i do see your point about holding up free flowing traffic but the peculiar layout made it seem like a really unusual/ unsafe place to stop. And I literally just clipped the corner of the bus lane in order to drive smoothly/ safely.

That's the case for lots of turning points though - where I live, you often have to hold up traffic in the middle of 60mph/NSL roads in order to turn off somewhere.

You can always try appealing (I mean, you have nothing to lose) but I expect the answer will be "You should have stopped and waited until it was safe to merge".

I certainly thought B. Not necessarily A.

I agree that it’s an unusual and potentially dangerous layout. It gives you very little time to make the maneuvre while putting pressure on you to do a dangerous thing - eg you either move over into the turning lane without 100% being sure that you have space based on an undertaking driver, get a ticket for illegally entering a bus lane or slam your brakes on approaching a green light. Is there a local Facebook group for this area? I bet you’re not the first.

Anyway - I’d appeal based on the layout and needing to enter the bus lane to avoid a collision with the undertaking driver. Do they appear on the camera picture?