To feel so foolish for underestimating house renovation timescale

[Eastie77Returns]

Apologies this is long:((

We bought our house in March. I had a number of ongoing threads for months as there were so many ups and downs so felt incredibly relieved when we finally Completed.

It is a 3/4 bed semi and I knew it needed work when I first viewed back in September but only had a vague understanding of the level required. The survey/report didn’t flag any major issues so I told DP that we should move in upon completion and just renovate as and when.

When we went for the pre-exchange viewing in Feb (the first time I had seen it since September) it became apparent the kitchen and bathroom would have to be ripped out as they were in an awful state. The vendor was an older woman with significant mental health issues and the place had been left to wrack and ruin. Despite this I was misguided enough to give our landlady 2 months notice as I thought the house would be liveable in that time. DP, who has actually renovated houses before said nothing to dissuade me.

So we move out next week and the situation is this: bathroom is done but we are looking at least another 3 months for the rest. The rest of the house needs to be plastered, ceilings still to be taken down, complete rewiring, new flooring has been ordered and has a 4 week lead time and can’t be laid until plastering etc is done. I agreed to DP’s suggestions without understanding the timeframes such as moving the boiler into an exterior utility room which will take a several weeks as we wait for the engineer to remove and install the new one.

We will now have to stay with my parents which I am absolutely dreading (that’s a whole other thread). Kids schooling is up in the air as their new school is several miles from parents so would be easier to keep them at current school around the corner but think I have to move them now or loose the places.

I frequently feel like crying and wake up each day feeling anxious and stressed. I also completely understand this is a first world problem and there are millions of people with real and bigger problems than me.

Thank you if you’ve got this far. I’m just venting at my foolish naivety really and also hoping for some success stories from anyone whose renovations actually happened a lot quicker than they thought?

So we've had to involve the police after receiving violent threats from the builder.

He called again to rant about something and I calmly asked him to tell me when he would finish work we've paid him up front for as he is yet to complete anything. He went ballistic, screamed and shouted and said if I asked him any more questions he'd come to house and "do us all over". In the meantime after doing a bit of digging online I've found a number of other customers are in the process of taking him to court. One reviewer stated they almost came to physical blows in the street. His company is also listed as status "Compulsory Strike Off" from Companies House (likely due to financial mismanagement).

The builder who put us in contact with this nutcase in the first place has apologised profusely (they are former friends). He is organising replacement help and will also come over in person to work on the unfished tasks in a week or so. Two of the tradesmen who worked for the builder have messaged to say they will work directly with us. It's almost a relief things have come to a head in this way and we've taken decisive steps to get him out of our lives.

@Eastie77Returns so sorry to read this. It was my original thought sadly that these were the actions of someone going bust. I hope you get the project sorted.

@Netaporter I feel so foolish and naive for paying this fraud up front for work when all the signs clearly indicated he was in financial difficulty. Live and learn.

Well I think we have now found new builders. I came upon them by chance after I popped in to visit one of our new neighbours. Her house looks absolutely stunning and she introduced me to them (father and son outfit) as they were carrying out some renovations. I surreptitiously looked them up online while I was there and read some great reviews. They are almost fully booked up over the next few months but I begged them to come and have a look at my place and the work that needs to be done (I have lost all my pride at this point). They have provided a quote for remedial and remaining work as it turns out there is thankfully not a huge amount to do and they think it can be completed in 2-3 days. Both were aghast at the poor standard of work.

Our plan to work directly with the arsehole builder’s trades fell apart. It turned out he owes them all unpaid wages and they were understandably unwilling to continue working on the house until they were paid.

He is completely banned from coming anywhere near the house after his violent threats. I’ve also compiled a dossier with photos detailing the complete shitshow that constitutes his ‘work’ on our house. There are too many defects to mention and almost all his work will have to be rectified.

I am daring to believe our new builders are actually decent professionals. They have completed more work in 3 days then psycho builder did in a month so granted, the bar is low. Has a wobble yesterday as they said they’d be on site in the afternoon, then said they were delayed and finally called to say it they would have to come today as the job they were on was over-running. However I was also pathetically grateful for the communication and updates as psycho builder routinely disappeared for days without explanation.

Kitchen worktop finished today as builders knew a man who was able to supply and fit for £££ less than the worktop store quoted us.

I'm a project manager, and just started a job where I have had a couple of houses to renovate, as well as some much bigger projects.

First project, new kitchen, new bathroom, new carpets/flooring, garage conversion, knock through for kitchen/dinner, fully painted throughout. Total time five weeks, competing in time tomorrow.

Second project, old farm building. Uninhabited for 5 years. New kitchen, new bathroom, replaced rotten floor joists, new floor boards, new electrics, new central heating, loft insulation, replaced plaster, redecorated throughout, new carpets/fitting throughout. It's in a conservation area and we worked around bats under the supervision of an ecologist. Six week to do this, finishing on Wednesday, 3 days late.

If you need a job doing, get a professional in.

@Eastie77Returns glad to hear things are getting back on track! Sounds like you’ll be able to put the dealings with psycho builder behind you shortly 🤞

Sorry to hear this. No surprise. 2 of my bil are builders and I could tell from the start. Hope you get it sorted.

I just want to add that I doubt there have many renovations in the world that didn’t go past the deadline and didn’t go over budget.

Building works and home upheavals are stressful. Don’t beat yourself up more what guilt and regret.

We have a half functioning kitchen. Small steps. The plumbing is done and the sink and dishwasher work.

However today was the second unsuccessful attempt to have our Range cooker from AO.com installed. First time failed as the cooker switch was not the required distance from the hob. This was the fault of Psycho Builder (he also messed up some of the kitchen cabinet installations so there wasn't enough space to even put the cooker in ffs). New builder rectified the issues but today's problem was to do with a pipe fitting on the wall behind where the cooker will be installed as it sticks out a few inches too far. This pipe was put in by British Gas who will now have to come back out and fix it.

Kitchen light fittings arrived this morning. Some of the pendants were the wrong size (too small). The company I ordered from forgot to include a Returns label so I bit the bullet and drove an hour to their showroom to return in person and buy the next size up. They were extremely apologetic and doled out biscuits and tea while I waited in their cavernous warehouse for the new pendants so all is forgiven. I'm so easily placated.

Flooring guys are in tomorrow to start part two of the floor installation upstairs. They were meant to start in 2 weeks but called today to say the material unexpectedly arrived early and can they start now? The upstairs rooms are not really cleared/ready but I'm actually desperate to get this bit done so we are no longer walking on dusty floorboards so this evening we are clearing out as much as we can.

I need a glass of wine.

Keep going, you’re making progress now.
il sorry to hear the original builder was such a nightmare.

I’m in the middle of a house renovation and I’ve just come across your thread, It’s giving me anxiety just reading it. Thank god you are at the final stages. Where have you been staying?
Just think about how much you will appreciate your new kitchen etc when it all works.

We completed on the house in March and stayed with my parents for a while and then found an Air BnB around the corner. We’ve been living in the house for about 3 weeks now. Sorry this has made you anxious. I think I was extremely unlucky with my crazed builder and I hope what I’ve been through with him is a rare occurrence. He was recommended by our brilliant first builder and our new neighbours. They’ve since told me he had a bad fall and fractured his skull
whilst on a job a couple of years ago and “hasn’t been quite right since”. There are clearly some mental health issues. They all feel very badly about how things have turned out.

The other issues that have cropped up including todays cooker debacle are part and parcel of renovating I think. All in all I can’t hide the fact the last 3 months have been a bit shit but I’m seeing a light at the end of the tunnel and our new builders have slowly restored my faith somewhat in tradesmen.

@Eastie77Returns what a nightmare you’ve had. I can’t recall, have you done any structural work? Removed walls etc? Your insurance against mistakes should’ve been mitigated by building control (who work for you to spot any incorrect work that fall foul of building regs). You’ll also need sign off by them for when you come to sell if this does apply. Any qualified electrician or plumber should also be fully aware of the rules surrounding switches/sinks etc so unless no one gave them a plan for each room (particularly the kitchen layout) this is unusual. British Gas tradesmen absolutely should be aware how to fit a pipe to accommodate a range correctly.

Moving forward, literally draw out every room not yet finished and be exact with the new builder and each contractor about exactly where every switch/lightfitting/cabinet/radiator is to go. To the last mm. Your builders will thank you and you’ll feel more in control. I usually tape a laminated plan on the door of each room and also a checklist of the items i’m supplying /the contractor is supplying for each room and their location on site.

good luck with the flooring. Although I understand the need to have dust-free floors, you are still having work done and the chance of dirt being walked into your new floor covering is high. Invest in corex/carpet protector and cover it until you are sure every trade has left the room. And buy over boot covers and leave them buy the front door. Unless you are specific, tradesmen will not take their shoes off, nor think ‘I won’t drill here as there is a pile of washing/soft furnishings/new carpet next to where I want to drill so will move that first’ 😭

@Netaporter Thanks for all these tips. The frustrating thing is I tried to follow a lot of what you advise. We were undone by a builder who turned out to be completely incompetent despite multiple recommendations and allegedly decades of experience.

We had a wall removed right at the start. We worked with a structural engineer who did all the required steel/beam calculations and a brilliant builder who had carried out hundreds of similar wall removals. All went well at this point and I don't think there will be an issue with building regs for that work.

If we had continued with brilliant builder I think we would have been home and dry by now but he had to travel abroad and so recommended nightmare builder, a longstanding friend of many years.

Nightmare builder and his tradesmen had a detailed kitchen plan but they complained (after the installation) that it was not very clear. They should have def. been aware of the rules around required distances for the switches etc.

The British Gas engineer has acknowledged they messed up with the pipework but they can't get out to fix it until next week so we have another week of no cooker.

There has just a lot of incompetence all round.

We now have all switches and radiators installed.

And yes, we have Cortex over every inch of the flooring already installed downstairs:)

At least I can say I've learned a lot from this experience. I will never renovate a house again.

How sweet to care about worrying me when your going through all this. You’ll have to post some pics of the fabulous results when it’s all done.

@Eastie77Returns do you have the building regs sign off/compliance and paperwork for the works that brilliant builder did though? You need to get that for sure.

renovations you live in are a bit like childbirth. terrible at the time, soon forgotten. Keep buggering on!

Netaporter the builder and structural engineer said building regs sign off was not needed due to the nature of the internal wall that was removed. I contacted Building Control in my borough to verify this and request a site visit. The officer I spoke with set up a ‘virtual site inspection’ with photos and videos as he said a domestic project of my size would not require on site. He concluded that Building Regs were not required. However I’m now concerned I should have got some kind of official documentation attesting to this as there may be issues if/when I sell?

Today I'm holed up in the front room trying to work. The British Gas contractor who messed up the pipework is here. He is very surly and clearly annoyed at being called back. I explained that our cooker could not be installed due to the error. He sneered and said I should have insisted that the fitter from AO dealt with it "but you women never know how to handle these things properly". Urggh.

In contrast we have a lovely floor fitter in finishing the installation upstairs. So friendly and has taught the DC how to count to 10 in Romanian (although we now have to hear this on repeat from both of them throughout the day...)

@Eastie77Returns wtf? I’d be reporting that to British Gas.

I think it was a weak attempt at humour. He went to say oh my wife would kill me if she heard me say that haha.

I’m really not in the mood for sexist ‘banter’.

Have now booked another cooker installation appointment. Sunday will be attempt no.3

No advice but sympathy as we are about to go through similar. Major renovations are needed on our rented house. Builder has messed us around for over a year. Now landlord has said he will do it himself but it will take much longer as he is fully trained but retired so he can only work 4 hours a day. I would rather wait for proper builder but I don't get the choice. We have to live with the inlaws. DH and I are so stressed and snappy at each other and I'm sick of half our stuff being in boxes and just want everyone to be happy again.

@elliejjtiny I was under the impression that if an RSJ is put in, building regs approval is usually required? Will the building inspector be signing off electrics etc?

OP, more than 40 years ago we had British Gas install new central heating. I was a young Mum of 20 at the time, and felt really out of my depth, as the fitters were at times really rude. Then one day I saw a man who I didn't recognise come through my front door, without ringing the bell, he went straight upstairs without even acknowledging me, at that point I blew my top!! I went after him and asked him who the hell he was. He said that he was the supervisor and was checking up on how the job was going. I told him that in future he was to ALWAYS ring the doorbell, and NEVER enter my house again without making me aware of his presence, as if anything went missing, the fitters would get the blame. To my surprise, he was very apologetic, but possibly because he'd seen the scary side of me, and after that a lot of the rudeness stopped. However, when they left, I went around the house checking that everything was as it should be, and to my horror, one of the radiators in a bedroom, dropped 3 inches from one end to the other!!! My DH would have accepted it, even though he was 3 years older than me, but I had found my inner strength with the supervisor that day, and so wrote a very strong letter to British Gas, telling them about the radiator, and the fact that not only did I want it put up properly, but I wanted another team to come in, as I was disgusted with the way I'd been treated by the lot who'd done the original installation. To my relief, I got a very grovelling letter, agreeing to everything I'd asked, and some money refunded as a 'gesture of good will'. My heart was in my mouth on the day that I tackled the supervisor, but I'd really had enough, and it was time to make a stand, as we paid an awful lot of money for the work to be done. Since then, if a workman is rude to me, he is told in no uncertain terms, that unless he apologises, and in future treats me with respect, he can leave my property immediately, and won't be paid, that usually brings them back in line. Then when we had an extension done, the electrician let the builder, and me down. I called the builder and told him I wanted the electrician there that evening, or there would be money deducted, the electrician turned up at 8pm, after a full day's work, and I eventually told him that he could go home and come back the next day, at 1am, because I'd had enough and wanted to go to bed. Apparently, he'd been told he wasn't to leave until the job was completed, so was grateful for my leniency, and brought me a bottle of wine the next day as an apology. Report this guy to British Gas, if you accept this sort of treatment, he'll continue to treat other women this way, don't let him get away with it!

@Stopthebusplease that sounds horrendous! I agree this kind of thing needs to be nipped in the bud. I was far too placid with the awful builder as I was so desperate for him to finish the work, I honestly just allowed him to walk all over me. I think once (some) trades realise you are easy pickings they do take the p**s.

So today was the third attempt at the Range installation. Two men arrived from AO. The fitter looked at the steps leading to our house and said “I am not carrying it into the house. I have a broken hand and damaged shoulder and this is a health and safety risk for me as your steps are at an incline”. We looked at him in disbelief. It was clearly noted on our order that there are 4 (yes four) steps leading to the house. And why would AO send someone with those kind of injuries? We asked if he could take it in via side access to the house and he refused to do that as well.

There was a standoff as he insisted he would not lift it and would not allow his colleague and DP to lift it because “it could also strain my colleagues back”. We were saved by our neighbour, his friend and dad who rallied together with DP and got it into the kitchen whilst the two AO guys stood and watched.

The fitter set to work in the kitchen and then stopped after 15mins. There is an issue with our electrics - reverse/cross polarity - which means the cooker cannot be installed. The breaker popped each time he switched on from the fuse box.

I was actually not even surprised as I was just expecting something else to to go wrong. I think I’m beyond upset now and just feel like giving up.

Well at least we managed to get the Rangemaster in the kitchen and it looks nice…

Bloody hell what a nightmare. I’m really surprised about AO as their customer service has been good when I’ve used them. It’s hard to get good service from anywhere now though.

AO have been brilliant to be fair, especially terms of quickly sorting out new delivery dates and their Customer Service reps are extremely friendly and helpful. If the delivery guy was injured I completely understand him not wanting to lift a Rangemaster but it was just a bit bizarre that they didn’t plan for this and send someone physically able to lift.

DP has worked out what caused the reverse polarity and looks as if it can be fixed quickly.

@legosunqueen I think your question was for me? Yes, Electrics need to be signed off. Once they are complete we will arrange that. Regarding the RSJ, I was going on the basis of what I was told by Building Control as well as the Structural Engineer & builder. I’m hoping it is all correct as the BC site visit was virtual..