To feel so foolish for underestimating house renovation timescale

[Eastie77Returns]

Apologies this is long:((

We bought our house in March. I had a number of ongoing threads for months as there were so many ups and downs so felt incredibly relieved when we finally Completed.

It is a 3/4 bed semi and I knew it needed work when I first viewed back in September but only had a vague understanding of the level required. The survey/report didn’t flag any major issues so I told DP that we should move in upon completion and just renovate as and when.

When we went for the pre-exchange viewing in Feb (the first time I had seen it since September) it became apparent the kitchen and bathroom would have to be ripped out as they were in an awful state. The vendor was an older woman with significant mental health issues and the place had been left to wrack and ruin. Despite this I was misguided enough to give our landlady 2 months notice as I thought the house would be liveable in that time. DP, who has actually renovated houses before said nothing to dissuade me.

So we move out next week and the situation is this: bathroom is done but we are looking at least another 3 months for the rest. The rest of the house needs to be plastered, ceilings still to be taken down, complete rewiring, new flooring has been ordered and has a 4 week lead time and can’t be laid until plastering etc is done. I agreed to DP’s suggestions without understanding the timeframes such as moving the boiler into an exterior utility room which will take a several weeks as we wait for the engineer to remove and install the new one.

We will now have to stay with my parents which I am absolutely dreading (that’s a whole other thread). Kids schooling is up in the air as their new school is several miles from parents so would be easier to keep them at current school around the corner but think I have to move them now or loose the places.

I frequently feel like crying and wake up each day feeling anxious and stressed. I also completely understand this is a first world problem and there are millions of people with real and bigger problems than me.

Thank you if you’ve got this far. I’m just venting at my foolish naivety really and also hoping for some success stories from anyone whose renovations actually happened a lot quicker than they thought?

Do not give the builder any more money. Ask them for a breakdown of the spend so far and where your money has gone. Stop all plastering until the electrics and plumbing are done. I cannot see why any competent builder is allowing plastering when the rewire/plumbing is not complete? If the channeling/rewire is done and also any plumbing you just need the sockets/rads etc installing then plastering is ok. Get dehumidifiers in the room just plastered to speed up the drying process. Make sure you have detailed plans where you want everything in terms of light fittings, radiators and sockets/switches. Who is supplying the materials such as sockets/switches? Are they on site? You can just get in an electrician, plumber plasterer and carpenter yourself to fit your materials. Take a deep breath and draw up a chart with your OH as to what needs doing and in what order.

move the floor and kitchen fitters back by two weeks if possible to give yourself breathing room. The weather is not terrible so could you camp in the garden/hire a motor home for a bit to save money?

He called this morning at 4.30am (!!) and sounded very angry. Said he felt he was being accused of shoddy work and didn’t appreciate the tone of the e-mails from DP in particular. Began reeling off all the things he has done for us and not charged us for (news to me), he has driven around the city for hours sourcing materials for us and basically ranted for about 20 minutes without letting me speak. He said he would not allow his integrity to be attacked. The whole call was stressful. However in all honesty I felt I had to pacify him and keep him on side because I am desperate to get this work finished and getting a new builder will just add weeks we don’t have.

When he calmed down he eventually agreed on a schedule and he will send me through a list of all outstanding work and associated costs. He promised the electrics will be finished today.

I have two young DC. I’m at the mercy of this guy and I can only hope it all turns out ok. He came recommended by both sets of our new neighbours and one told us he can be very prickly but he gets the job done.

I would still look into another builder or source trades individually. Best of luck if you do carry on using him.

Sorry @Netaporter, cross posted with you.

The switches, sockets etc were agreed on and marked in the walls. He said he has bought everything.

The plastering has only taken place upstairs. The electrics need to be completed downstairs hence the reason none of the downstairs plastering has started.

He did bring a dehumidifier for the rooms upstairs.

It will be difficult to move the flooring fitters as they have a tight schedule and if we reschedule they won’t be able to fit us in for weeks. Pushing back the kitchen delivery will also be problematic (currently due the week after the floor fitters). The flooring guys said they need to bring the flooring into the house one week beforehand in order to acclimatise it and the ground floor plastering therefore needs to be completed and whole area clear by then. So they need to bring it next week. During his rant the builder said that this is all nonsense and acclimatisation is not needed for so long.

Yes if I could get a motor home/caravan in the garden I would certainly camp in there, just not sure how feasible it is and I’ve seen some eye watering hire costs.

Oh OP. Been there. And completely understand why you feel the need to keep him onside BUT like PP's have said I would still plan for him not finishing the job and start looking for someone else.WTF with the 4:30 a.m call? Was he pissed? High?Under the circumstances, I would agree a deadline for wiring and if (when) he misses it, that's the end of it. Pay him off at that stage and move on.
Hire a bigger firm with more bodies to get you to the stage where you can at least camp in an upstairs makeshift kitchen, washing up in the bathroom, with a room for the kids.
Yes, organise storage, but prioritise 'getting in' and taking control of YOUR house, so a whiteboard/spreadsheets for planning, a mini kitchen - oh- and change the locks so old wanker builder no longer has access.

@Eastie77Returns i fear your chap is demonstrating the behaviour which comes from someone with money issues. Demanding cash and then A 4.30an call is not normal and I’d suggest you no longer answer the phone to him outside of normal working hours. Your DP needs to make it very clear that he should not speak to you in such a manner. I’d say it is most likely that he is taking staged payments from multiple clients to pay suppliers for other jobs. I think you both need to send a calm email asking for confirmation of what is being done as per the call and when and also confirmation of what exactly he has bought in terms of the materials he says he has. And that he brings them to site. You should also state when and how much you paid the various amounts of cash. Your flooring chap is quite correct, the flooring needs to acclimatise for at least a week and they won’t compromise on that because they are providing the warranty for the work.

You also need to get receipts for the cash you have given him. He may ask for cash but without proof he has asked and also accepted it, it may be construed that you are avoiding VAT. Buy a simple receipt book today and get him to sign from now on. Ideally also he’d sign for the backdated payments.

Also, make sure you purchase corex protective floor covering and put down everywhere fixed with duct tape to avoid any damage to it after it is fitted.

Oh dear. I remember you from the house move threads and I’m sorry to hear things have been so difficult.
Renovations are always a nightmare.

However, completely agree with above poster that ranty 4.30 calls are not normal. I imagine cash problems. He sounds desperate for money and will literally promise you anything to get it.
Do not pay any more. If the electrics aren’t done today as promised I would remove him.
I know it’ll cock up your schedule with other trades but you’ll have to replan.
I’ve been in similar situations and it’s horrible. It’s because you feel out of control and always on the back foot. Your builder holds all the cards, and you’re just waiting (hoping) that he will somehow perform better, but you don’t really believe it.
You need a bigger builder with more resources to throw at it.
Make a big list this morning in the cold light of day and then make a proper plan, including a scenario where you sack this builder and start the whole process again. You were hardly in a position for rational thought at 4.30 and he knew that. There will be tough decisions to make, but even if it means a delay you’ll feel better if you take back control.

Get rid of the builder!

Are you on Instagram? Highly recommend following victorianwreckbythesea which is/was a proper disaster house with rot and damp and rats and blocked up windows and horror after horror, similar tales of no hot water and such, and living there during the renovation with children and full-time jobs. When you’ve got dust in your hair and no oven, it’s a proper balm to the soul to read.

The 4.30am call was because he “starts the day at 3am” and I was first on his list of people to call. Agree it was all very odd. I picked up in desperation as hadn’t heard from him.

I know he has other projects on. I am in direct contact with one of the plasterers who has randomly turned out to be an old classmate of my brother. He said builder is working on a huge renovation in Essex (house is owned by a footballer) plus another job and is spread thin. He is sending his crew of men everywhere and the plasterers were at the Essex house yesterday. I imagine our job is minor in terms of the £££ the other work is worth.

I have my clipboard and schedule notes ready and am meeting him at the house today. I will not make any further payments. He is now making agreeable conciliatory noises and this morning turned up with a full crew.

I totally understand the logic behind ditching this builder now but I’m not sure mentally I can go through the stress of trying to find a trustworthy builder. Do they even exist? I chose this guy on the basis of two personal recommendations. I’ve seen threads on MN where builders with positive online reviews have also turned into nightmares. So regardless of how you find a builder, it can all go wrong. It feels like pot luck and I’m not sure I can risk rolling the dice again and hoping I get a good builder. Feels like better the devil I know…

I've been in my house since beg Nov. Still working on it. Extension hasn't even started. Its gonna be over a year I reckon before it's finished.

No kitchen I’d get an ninja foodi love ours. It’s bake, airfryer, slowcooker and pressure cooker. Set up temporary kitchen.

@stuntbubbles I’ve been scrolling through victorianwreckbythesea on Insta and I’m addicted. So much of it resonates with me. Sounds horrible but it’s comforting to see someone else going through an equally horrendous renovation but I can also see she is slowly coming through the other side!

@Eastie77Returns Great, isn’t it? You can really smell the horror.

If it also helps cheer you, our reno began in March 2020 so you can guess how well that went. Three weeks of rubble and destruction then total shutdown, leaving us without a garden (filled with rubble), a sitting room (filled with builders tools and a kitchen yet to be fitted), a kitchen (gutted), or a downstairs loo. Every time we flushed the upstairs loo the downstairs HOLE would emit a waft. And sometimes a rat…

What is the builder really doing other than project (mis)managing? I’d be inclined to sack him off and hire the trades directly. I’ve heard enough horror stories of “builders” that I’d much rather have a firm grip of who/when and at what cost and hire directly.

@Eastie77Returns how are things going? Are the electrics finished?

Ours took two years - new heating system and boiler, rewiring and some replastering, new kitchen, new bathroom, internal structural changes and new flooring downstairs. We lived in it throughout (with a pre-schooler and toddler) except for one week when the rewiring was done. We spent two weeks living entirely upstairs using a microwave and a camping stove. It wasn't the most fun experience but it was tolerable.

I should add, it wasn't two years in total - we had the rewiring, heating and bathroom done and livwd with the kitchen then had the downstairs internal work done the following year.

@Candleabra the electrics are still ongoing but progress has been made and it seems as if it will be completed by the end of today. The builder got an electrician to do some of the work after originally saying he would do it all himself and he (the electrician) has been great. I do think if we had worked directly with the trades it would have been quicker and less expensive. However he seems to wield some kind of control over his crew. The plasterers said they couldn’t work directly for us as there would be hell to pay if he found out.

He has quoted us for the kitchen installation and will be working with an installer who we know via word of mouth is brilliant. So again we’d rather work directly with him and cut out the builder but the fitter has also said he can’t do that.

Do you have side access to your back garden? Would it be possible to buy / rent a caravan or similar and live in the garden rather than at your parents? Means you're close to the kids schools and on site for project managing.

Well that sounds a bit more positive.

At little bit more positive but not completely - see electrics update below. The builder has been around all week with a full crew. However he seems to be extremely defensive when asked any kind of question and constantly plays the victim ("I work 24/7 to help my customers and just get complaints and unreasonable demands..."). He has fallen out badly with DP and does not want him in the house when he is working there. I do understand as DP is annoying and thinks he is an expert in all matters building related. However the builder does not communicate clearly with us hence DP asking constant questions and sending lots of messages. The builder has blocked DP and will only speak directly with me.

So the electrics are not actually completed in the sense that the builder has finished the initial work but now there is a whole new round of work that has to be carried out involving our supplier, UK Power Network and an internal installation to be carried out by the electrician. This was only explained to me this morning when I reminded DP that our Air BnB booking ends next Saturday. He calmly dropped the news that there will not be any electricity in the house by then because of all this other work.

There is so much miscommunication. I clearly asked the builder if we'd be able to move into the house next week (albeit we will not have a kitchen) and he said yes.

Now it turns out that in addition to no electricity, there will be no hot water as the boiler installer says all radiators must be installed before the boiler goes up. The builder, who disagrees with every single trades who is not in his crew, says this is nonsense.

I began to cry this morning. This Air BnB is booked up after our stay so we can't extend. Where am I meant to drag the DC to next? We cannot go back to my parents as they are a few miles from the DC's new school and in London morning traffic this takes an hour plus.

We moved in to a doer Upper at the end of September. Floor to ceiling woodchip - even on the ceiling 😫. Nothing touched since the 80s. Needed rewiring etc.

Bathroom was the first thing to get done. We have just had our kitchen done and have had no running water downstairs for about a month. This was due to plastering, late delivery and wrong parts of kitchen delivered (thank you WREN - would not recommend this company to anyone)

We've been trudging upstairs washing the dinnerplates in the bathroom. We have lived off food you can cook in the ninja foodie and microwave and lots of takeaways.

Luckily there is a little lean to thing, so we had a kettle, the ninja and microwave in there.

BUT it was finished yesterday and it was worth the inconvenience. Still got the rest of the house to do, but now the kitchen and bathroom are done, the task is a million times less daunting.

There is light at the end of the tunnel OP. I actually nearly cried when I turned the tap on 😆

Just to clarify we have moved out of my parents as DC started school near the house. We rented an Air BnB short term as I was told by the builder and DP that we'd be able to move into the house next week.

Now the builder is saying it might take 6-8 weeks for the supplier to move the meter.

@DorothyZbornakIsAQueen thank you. I've been tearful all day. Your post has given me some hope.

Just feels so unrelenting.

So latest update: plastering finished and looks really good. Electrics are almost there. Power U.K. and and our supplier will be out next week to finalise everything. The painter who did a fantastic job on my last property is booked in for next month. Kitchen arrives next week but not sure when (need to chase DIY kitchens)

The flooring guys started work today. They are a breath of professional air in stark contrast to the builder. I just cannot wait to see the back of him. His team of trades are amazing and the only reason we have stuck with him. Several of them have told us privately that he cuts corners and rushes things as he is juggling other jobs.

He sends me messages at 3am/4am chasing money he asked for just hours before, it is insane. I never respond at that time. Everything has to be in cash and when I explained I will not pay without a documented breakdown of costs he became annoyed and scribbled down something on the back of an envelope. When I said I could do a bank transfer quickly but going to the bank to get cash would take longer he had a complete meltdown. The level of aggression and defensiveness when we speak on the phone (he tends to be calmer in person) is completely off the scale.

Yesterday he was ranting that I’ve cost him money as he has spent his own money buying materials that he has decided not to charge me for “because you’re a nice person”. This is typically for work we had not agreed for him to do. I’m not sure why he is doing this as I’ve made it clear I will not pay for anything I have not agreed to.

Separately, he damaged part of our lovely newly installed bathroom wall with a drill. When I spoke about it to him he exploded “I’ve bought easy filler for your DP to fix that”. When I told him he must fix it he complained it is an “easy fix” and grudgingly agreed to do it. I don’t know if there are MH issues to be honest. Sometimes mid sentence he starts shouting (after starting calmly) completely out of the blue and then reverts to smiling and joking.

I know I’ve been advised to ditch him and if I could do that but keep the trades, I would. However they all seem scared of him. I calculate we will have him out of our lives in about 3 weeks.