To WFH while on holiday abroad so I don’t use up holiday entitlement?

[RaspberryFarfait]

We have already have a big holiday booked this year and DH also wants to spend a month in his home country with his parents during the summer holidays.

He doesn’t WFH, so will use all holiday entitlement, but I do. Colleague is also on leave for some of that time so I wouldn’t normally be able to be off as need to cover.

WIBU to not book holiday, travel over there and work as normal, without telling work. I only work part time and it’s certainly doable.

Only problem is will I be able to log in remotely from abroad? Has anyone done this?

Don’t want to ask work yet as they’ll cotton on!

You would be sacked for doing this at my work if you hadn't agreed it in advance. There are certain data files we use that can't be accessed from abroad so it would all have to be agreed/ approved in advance

Certain parts of my work couldn't be done while I was away but that might not.be an issue depending on when it was in the year

So whilst employer is quite good and might well agree to this arrangement anyway depending a few things , doing it on the quiet would definitely be a sackable offence

This issue is raising its head in lots of U.K. based employers my company (professional services) supports. NHS and civil service are definitely not allowed to do this - approvals within individual depts/ trusts will be due to not being up to date on rules and they are exposing themselves to risks.

The main issues are tax implications for employer, local v U.K. employment laws, insurance and IT security.

As a minimum, employers need to have a registered local tax office. To not declare and pay tax in a country you’re working in is essentially illegal. A couple of days working at an international conference is not the same as regular office working for 1 month.

when you go just use a VPN, your boss or the I.T department wont have a clue that you're out of the country, no harm no foul. i have done this a few times when visiting family in Pakistan

May be a data/GDPR issue depending on the country, your policies, and the sort of work that you do. Definitely check.

I work for a University and we had another email just this week about nor being able to use your laptop to work abroad. IT security related to the VPN (or something, I can't remember and am not very IT literate!)

That. And you're basically lying to your employer.

It’s not black and white, yes or no across the whole of the NHS or Civil Service. Different departments will have different rules, some roles within a team may have a justification to work abroad whereas others won’t. That’s why it’s so important to request permission through whatever process applies at one’s place of work.

I had to sack someone for this, public sector agency practitioner. I knew he was away for a few weeks over Christmas and was going back to his home country to visit family, no issue there. I got a time sheet through from his agency for hours part way through this period, I emailed him to query expecting him to read and reply on his return, he responded and said yes I've been working a bit from here. Government tech, no email access other than on his laptop very confidential information, working from a country known for corruption, tech monitoring etc. I had to inform my director immediately, then call him whilst abroad tell him to shut down the laptop instantly and his account was deleted remotely by IT. When he came back he was fired for gross misconduct.
You need to ask, if they say yes great, if they say no you need to make other plans.

No it's not "strangely aggressive". It's sadly realistic.

As many others have said you ultimately need to speak to your employer as attempting to do so without telling them can ultimately lead to you potentially being sacked.

This thread is really odd and completely ott. Paranoia. Yes, for some companies this may be a problem and may require approval.

But for most it won't. Like shedcity says : All these mentions of tax issues is bullshit, only relates to long term staying, residency. Not a week in fucking Spain. A bit different if it's some South American or Asian hotspot with IT issues and data unsafe. Not a week in bloody costa del sol.

I’ve done it for one day (long weekend in Portugal) and I piggy backed onto my iPhones hotspot which I believe is more secure than using international wifi.

How do you think millions and millions of businessmen and women work as they fly all over Europe. Accountancy firms and lawyers going from Brussels to Hong Kong.
FFS some if these posts re tax legislation are odd.

"If you are in the U.K. and travelling outside the U.K. you cannot do this for HMRC tax reasons "

@Tediumincarnate

I find that hard to believe. In fact I'll go further and say it's factually incorrect.

Per HMRC:

"Employees who spend most of their time abroad over a period of a year or more "

A week in Spain. Or, OP one month. Doesn't classify as HMRC majority of tax year does it?

I wouldn't bother telling employer. I don't think it's their business if it's just for a month.

🙄

Sooo tax implications, security implications aside, and the fact that it might not be permitted in her contract etc. Isn't the company's business?

🤔

How do you think millions and millions of businessmen and women work as they fly all over Europe. Accountancy firms and lawyers going from Brussels to Hong Kong.

As someone who did exactly this for a number of years - the answer is that there are special arrangements (IT, systems access, employment status) for people whose work is "international" and the situation is completely different to someone wanting to do their usual, UK-based work in another country for a few weeks.

FFS some if these posts re tax legislation are odd.

No, they really are not. The basis of almost all national taxation systems is that workers are taxed where they work. Exceptional rules apply for people on secondment, for people whose work is "international" (e.g. international sales people, accountants and lawyers as above) and people on temporary assignments such as travel reps, coach drivers, repair technicians etc.

Brexit has made the situation more complicated for UK residents. From 2023, ETIAS will make it even more difficult as travellers will be required to declare why they are entering the EU, what they will be doing and when they will be leaving.

"If you are in the U.K. and travelling outside the U.K. you cannot do this for HMRC tax reasons "

The issue is not with HMRC but with the tax authorities in the country where the person is temporarily working.

Yes @Havanananana is correct - it's to do with not just HMRC but also whether a tax liability (company or individual) arises as a result of work done in a location other than a person's official country of work. Am absolutely not an expert but I believe that tax liabilities can arise over very short periods of time, especially in certain US states.

OP should just check with her work, as many others have suggested.

One very practical reason op. If you have holiday insurance it won't cover you if you are performing your contractual work duties. If you don't have your employer's permission, their insurance won't cover you. If you were to die (and I sincerely hope not) it will be an absolute ball ache for your family.

Havana you have made my point exactly. Tax legislating does not apply. for one person doing the payroll for one day in Portugal.

What does the HMRC guidelines say about how many days constitute temporarily working?

Unfortunately this doesn't work if your company blocks unrecognised VPNs (and if it doesn't, it really ought to ...)

Read the Opening post 🙄....OP already has a big holiday abroad booked...in addition they want to go abroad for a month to her DPs home land

I would ask for permission. There’s tax implications and security implications if you have sensitive data. I have done this and I just needed permission. I’m about to do it again for a week but again, will get permission.