To WFH while on holiday abroad so I don’t use up holiday entitlement?

[RaspberryFarfait]

We have already have a big holiday booked this year and DH also wants to spend a month in his home country with his parents during the summer holidays.

He doesn’t WFH, so will use all holiday entitlement, but I do. Colleague is also on leave for some of that time so I wouldn’t normally be able to be off as need to cover.

WIBU to not book holiday, travel over there and work as normal, without telling work. I only work part time and it’s certainly doable.

Only problem is will I be able to log in remotely from abroad? Has anyone done this?

Don’t want to ask work yet as they’ll cotton on!

Ours, well my old work as I have left now, was the same pre covid. From what I know it is less of a trust thing and more that they turned a blind eye to it when the numbers of people working short term abroad were low and it was sporadic.

But suddenly when lockdown hit, vast numbers either got stuck abroad or flew to their home country or holiday home at the end of Feb/early March as they could see what was coming.

The longer lockdown went on that’s when they went oh shit we may be liable for tax, for the reasons explained above. The people I knew that got disciplined for working abroad were contacted in September/October time to formally discuss their working location (even though everyone had known for months where they were)

You absolutely must discuss with your business- this would be totally against the policy of my last place of work as it risks creating tax liabilities for the business (and you) in the foreign country . All internet traffic can be tracked and followed so it could be a real issue

As long as work are ok with it I don’t see the problem. At the end of the day you aren’t holidaying, you are staying with family. If your family lived in London and you were in the north it wouldn’t be an issue to work from theirs for a month, so why would it if you were abroad

I put YABU but only because you said you wouldn’t tell your work.

I guess it depends what company you work for, but I would always try to accommodate an employee’s request especially if it were short term. What I wouldn’t appreciate is an employee lying to us / keeping something from us.

Depending on your role, there could be security risks if you are on unsecured / public wifi networks too.

Ws have a number of employees who are hoping to travel to see family in other countries and they have all been honest with us and we've worked out individual arrangements, e.g. 4 weeks away, 2 weeks working, 2 weeks holiday.

So my advice is be honest with your employer.

Your company might have issues with this from a tax point of view, and you almost certainly will have problems from an IT point of view... a firewall will very likely stop you from logging in from a "strange" location. You're going to have to be open and honest about it

You don't 'see an issue' with 'swindling' your employers for months?

And working remotely doesn't necessarily mean you can 'work anywhere'. Many employers will insist you be based in the UK, for reasons explained above.

Some companies have a policy on this, for different reasons. Just ask HR. My company allows it for something like four weeks, for tax reasons.

It depends if you need the internet or company can track IP addresses it could be a security breach and you’ll be in trouble. The only reason why I wouldn’t take the work computer on holiday otherwise go for it but be sure not to let colleagues know about your fab holiday!

It was actually supposed to say spending nit swindling lol but just too say my employee doesn’t care , I work from home anyway over 500 miles away from my office .
we had people working from all over the world during Covid , including one of the partners for over 4 months in Italy and another in India .
as long as work is ok with it why not

spot on . My office was scattered all over the world during the covid lockdown , all we got was a form from HR asking us to confirm how long we spend abroad and where . We all knew about the tax implications anyway so did not came as a shock to anyone to be questioned about it .
I think as always people like to create a storm in a glass of water .

@Mfsf there were some temporary exemptions at the start of covid to prevent people stuck overseas or companies with employees who couldn’t get back to their home countries because of “public health measures” triggering tax obligations (both income tax and corporation tax) in those overseas jurisdictions. These exemptions wouldn’t apply to the OP’s situation, travel is possible again so no one is genuinely stuck due to covid.

I was going to say the same.

During the first lockdown several of my colleagues were working abroad. But that was an emergency situation and nobody had had a chance to look at the legislation and tax implications. However, we were since told that we had to be UK resident, even if WFH.

Some organisations may be OK with staff being abroad for a few weeks, but many will not. The only way the OP can know for sure is to speak to her employers. Keeping schtum in the hope they won't find out is risky in the extreme.

This wouldn't raise a single eyebrow where I work, lots of people do it regularly.

If there isn't a policy that says you can't then I would be inclined to assume you can, but I am a cheeky cow.

Risky I would say. My daughter and her family were abroad for 2 weeks,she works partly from home ,the rest of the time she is out doing inspections. She turns her mobile off and presumably deals with any work stuff by email. Must be a bit stressful. What if they want her for an emergency meeting etc?

Do not under any circumstances do this without asking your company. If they find out, and it's highly probable they will as so many things can go wrong with remote access, then you are likely to lose your job. Which is a high price to pay. Often you need different fire wall set ups etc when working abroad so you may get there and find out you can't access anything. Ask them, and provide a plan of your outputs etc while you are away.

We are allowed to work from anywhere in the country without permission. We have the systems to login from anywhere with wifi. However, to work abroad we have to ask permission. And of course if it’s for an extended period there’d be tax implications. More importantly though, unless you are officially working, the company’s insurance won’t cover you if something goes wrong (related to work I mean). The other thing I have experienced is, your holiday insurance must start before you leave your home country and cover the whole period you’re away. It’s no good tacking travel insurance on the end of a period of work abroad where you intend to holiday after. So, best be honest about it. If you’re not in a different timezone and it doesn’t mess up remote meetings as a result they may agree.

Really interesting thread. DH is a nightmare for taking his phone on holiday and working constantly (he picking up work calls in WDW ffs) - no one seems bothered when you are picking up work on holiday but working elsewhere while not being on holiday is an issue it seems.

It is about the length of time. We have a two week allowance to work in another country. No longer.

@Womencanlift we had that too. Pre covid it wasn’t widespread. People were expected in the office so didn’t have a chance to do this. With covid and discovering their employees had used lockdown to scatter across the world (and then couldn’t get back, even if requested), they realised just how exposed they were and got really strict.

To those who think this is a lot of fuss, of course anything is possible with approval but I wouldn’t encourage anyone to risk it without obtaining that first. It’s not worth getting fired over. The average employee is not aware of the bigger picture. Why would they be, it’s not their role. But for those of us who are, of course we’ll flag the issues our employers consider if someone asks for advice and advise caution.

And for the millionth time ‘tax implications’ doesn’t just refer to income tax! I think that’s what upsetting everyone who thinks this is a fuss. In my jurisdiction, it’s one’s on the employer that are the concern.

God knows I wish people could work anywhere without it being an issue. It would make my life far easier, I have to answer questions like this all the time and there’s never a simple answer because we don’t have a blanket no rule, but neither can we allow it for everyone.

I have done this. I haven't told work but I don't see what difference it makes. In my case, the country I worked from was four hours ahead which was great as it gave me lots of time in the morning to be on holiday. I also only work three days a week.

My collleague did similar and worked from the US where her parents live and she went on an extended visit. She did tell work though.

I've enjoyed looking at the Double Tax Treaty's for SEE non EU, re OP. looking into the Corporation Tax side of things. Very interesting. I haven't found anything yet, which indicates it would be triggered for OP.

@Festivecheer26

Festive did you see OP's last post?
She asked your a question.

"There is a double tax treaty but the amount specified as taxable earnings is over what I earn in a year, let alone a month! How would that work @Festivecheer26 if you don’t mind me asking? "

Could you respond please. I too am interested.

She also says she's checked:
"Actually just checked and you need to be physically present for 6 months to be liable for income tax in the country I’m going to. "

So does her one month affect income tax or corporation tax?

From an employers point of view, insurance can be an issue. What happens if your work (?) laptop is stolen? There’s also a (very small) chance that equipment owned by the company could injure you or someone else - if, for example, it causes a fire or your workstation is uncomfortable and you hurt your back. Healthcare can be an issue if you are offered private health cover through your work. These things OUGHT to be taken into account for home working in the UK but often aren’t, and are just compounded by working abroad. If you plan on working abroad for more than a couple of months, you might need to be aware of working regulations in that country, and there may be tax issues. Does your company have any branches in that country?

The technology may be here, but insurance and tax rules often stand in the way.

Just ask for help from your company, they may be able to be flexible. You wouldn’t be able to talk about the amazing time you’ve had with your family if you don’t tell them.

I do this, but boss knows I am on holiday and that I check emails on a daily (except weekends) basis. It helps me as much as him as I don't have hundreds of emails when I get back home (and I WFH)x, and it really doesn't take long. I am an early riser so have always done what I need to do before Hubby is even stirring :). I always claim back 2/3 days off my holiday entitlement, and my boss is happy for me to do that, but I don't NOT take holiday for the duration. If you think you can get away with it, then fine, but I would just think I am taking advantage of a situation. As for logging on abroad, I have never had any problem but, again, I always let IT know that I am travelling and they make any adjustment to my laptop / phone that is required for that particular country. Once I am on the hotel Wi-Fi, then I have no problem. Sometimes, however, the hotel Wi-Fi has not been very strong so problems have occurred then, and for this reason it may be wise to tell your employers what you propose to do.

From a legal perspective I would go by what the contract says . Do you normally work from home as per contract ? Is location specified ? Sim bay system di you need to log in too ?
maybe mention work you need to work from a different location due to family changes .