To expect to be examined and diagnosed by an actual nurse or doctor?

[Cravela]

Stomach pain came on suddenly and worsened over 24 hrs. Telephone appt with GP who advised hospital and sent me to the surgical assessment unit. So far so good

Staff member arrives in scrubs and takes all my details and then starts examining me. Tells me the plan (CT scan) and that she will give pain killers in the meantime.

Noticed she wasn’t wearing a lanyard/badge so I asked her her name Dr?. She says oh I’m not a doctor, ok so you’re a nurse? (No issues with that always choose to see an advance nurse practitioner when I go to the GP and I have a friend who is a consultant nurse). No she says she’s not a nurse. I was getting quite frustrated at this point because she was clearly avoiding just telling me her job role. So I straight out said can you tell me your job role please. She said she was a “physicians associate”.

I’ve never heard of one before so I googled after she left and literally anyone can be one after a 2 year course. They don’t come under the GMC or the nurses governing body and aren’t able to prescribe medicine or diagnose people??

I asked the nurse in charge if I could see a doctor or a surgical nurse and they came 10 mins later. Doctor was quite apologetic and re-examined me.

AIBU to think if you aren’t a doctor or a nurse you should tell people that before you put your hands on them??

Well anyone can be a nurse after a 3 or 4 year course and anyone can be a doctor after a 5 year or 4 year graduate course if you want to look at it that way!

A physicans associate has a undertake a 2 year intensive masters and they can only get onto this masters if they already have an undergraduate science or healthcare degree. A few universities accept non science or healthcare qualifications but not many.

Just because you don't know anything about it doesn't mean they have no place in healthcare.

There are far more jobs in the nhs than just doctor or nurses! Not having a badge or introducing herself is a big issue but many non nurse / non doctor health professionals provide direct patient care.

Cheaper 🤨🤨🤨

Might want to check your facts. And they don't cover OOH.

As I said the ones who have been nurses are amazing. The others.... not.

Yeah PAs are a cheaper and much less trained and much much less regulated version of a doctor. Good on you for asking for a re-assessment.

Absolutely this. I was heavily pregnant with a broken leg in a hospital side room when some random man in jeans with no ID strolled in and started chatting. I felt incredibly vulnerable and he was really arsey when I interrupted him to ask who he actually was. Turned out he was one of the surgical team but how was I supposed to know?

Wrong. They train for 2 years. Perhaps you can provide a link to this one year course that they allegedly do?

of course they are cheaper

anyway whatever their profession they should have introduced themselves.
make a complaint!

Shame you had all that radiation!!! .ultrasound would have been better .

Easier to order a CT though when you don't have much experience or training and aren't really confident in what you're doing

They get paid more than doctors.

How does that make them cheaper?

Its the quick training that is the only reason they make sense to fill gaps in the NHS.

And this post just goes to show why people who know nothing about roles in healthcare shouldn't automatically assume that the person that has come to assess them isn't entirely capable of doing so.

@Hallyup89

Agree!

She should have introduced herself. But this in no way means she isn't good at her job and that other AHP aren't either. Attitudes like this are possibly why some roles fear introducing themselves.

There is no such thing as a consultant nurse? Well technically you're right, the job title is nurse consultant. And they don't do the same role as a doctor, if you were familiar with them then you'd know that. But yeah, you might want to tell the RCN that there is no such thing as a nurse consultant, I'm sure they'd appreciate your knowledge and wisdom.

Nurse consultant saw me when I had an accident last year. She was great. Years ago I was unwell for months, well probably years, GP kept saying I was depressed. I made yet another appointment as feeling pretty desperate and saw ANP, she diagnosed me correctly and I've been on med ever since. GP called me in when he saw the results of the blood test she did and said, "You must have been feeling awful." Well yes I'd told him that multiple times.

When I was in hospital for surgery for a condition that can have a genetic link a young doctor was taking my medical history. I mentioned my paternal grandmother had died of the condition. She very patronisingly explained that paternal was male so I couldn't have a paternal grandmother. I explained while trying not to laugh that you can have two grandmothers, your mothr's mother who is your maternal grandmother and your father's mother who is your paternal grandmother. She slammed my notes closed and walked off without speaking to me. Made me question how bright some doctors actually are.

I've seen some fantastic doctors and nurses and some who were pretty abysmal. I daresay physicians associates are much the same.

Like ANPs, they can follow a strict protocol or guideline, but they don't have the intelligence and broad based medical education to think laterally.

Ouch. Should I stop teaching FY1 & 2s and bow down before them?

Bow down before them...

Anywhere I work there have been issues between PAs and juniors. Far from bowing down!

PAs suffering because they are unregulated. GMC has no intention of regulating them. I think RCP, London is planning to regulate them by ensuring uniform training standard, CPD and regular Revalidation as what doctors and nurses currently undergo.

Are you saying PAs are better than doctors and nurses because they do “intensive” training? Even boxers do that,

This happens here, in this country, in the UK.

@Cuck00soup

I have just re-read tour comment. It sums up exactly why i hate working in the NHS. The mentality that one person can be little and be made to "bow down" to others simply for being more
Junior in a job is ridiculous. Not all foundation doctors are fresh out of school. Some have had previous lives and life experience that comes with. The amount of times i have been treated like a child just for being more junior in my job!

Everyone in healthcare has their roles and limitations. If you ring and ask a junior doctor, very few of them actually know how the patient is actually doing because they don’t spend time with patient. However, an RGN and PAs are usually better informed about the patient progress and give you better idea. PA role is not for diagnosis but to help physician with coming to that conclusion on diagnosis and making a management plan. Again, PAs can execute the plan once a plan has been laid down by physician.

Very unfair. Does this sweeping uninformed opinion apply to nurses and all other allied healthcare profession too? Not everyone wants to be a doctor! It’s hardly the be all and end all of jobs!

Should have stayed this was in response to comment about PAs being wannabe doctors!

Hi I am an advanced nurse practitioner who works on a surgical emergency unit

Physician associates are amazing, don't underestimate their knowledge. They stay under one team so often actually know more than the junior drs that you see because they become expert in that field rather than keep moving on. I work with some that are far more knowledgeable and confident than a Dr straight out of medical school.

They can't book CT scans so you would have been discussed with a Dr who would have then booked it.

There's a shortage of drs nationwide which will only get worse. It's good that we can train people to do these roles to help.

She should have introduced herself but this thread shows that her job title wouldn’t have helped most people.
my friend in an ambulance technician - first healthcare person you’ll meet if your life is in danger outside in the street - she “only” trained for two years but she really knows her stuff and that doesn’t mean she’s not a very valuable member of the healthcare system.

🤨

We know as much about our patients as we find out. Same for PAs. Nobody is sotting snd hand holding. We all spend the amount of time
Necessary to get the info we need