To expect to be examined and diagnosed by an actual nurse or doctor?

[Cravela]

Stomach pain came on suddenly and worsened over 24 hrs. Telephone appt with GP who advised hospital and sent me to the surgical assessment unit. So far so good

Staff member arrives in scrubs and takes all my details and then starts examining me. Tells me the plan (CT scan) and that she will give pain killers in the meantime.

Noticed she wasn’t wearing a lanyard/badge so I asked her her name Dr?. She says oh I’m not a doctor, ok so you’re a nurse? (No issues with that always choose to see an advance nurse practitioner when I go to the GP and I have a friend who is a consultant nurse). No she says she’s not a nurse. I was getting quite frustrated at this point because she was clearly avoiding just telling me her job role. So I straight out said can you tell me your job role please. She said she was a “physicians associate”.

I’ve never heard of one before so I googled after she left and literally anyone can be one after a 2 year course. They don’t come under the GMC or the nurses governing body and aren’t able to prescribe medicine or diagnose people??

I asked the nurse in charge if I could see a doctor or a surgical nurse and they came 10 mins later. Doctor was quite apologetic and re-examined me.

AIBU to think if you aren’t a doctor or a nurse you should tell people that before you put your hands on them??

Recently a nurse was chatting to me about things while I was having a procedure - I am a nurse. I realised how grateful I was for the distraction afterwards.

@Junepassing a job where there isn't a reductive hierarchy where juniors aren't spoken to like sh1t.

I don't mind passing the time of day with small talk, I'm quite good at it, but not small talk that is a micro aggression about my name, something pitched at shoes or nails which assumes I'm an air head (why can't a nurse ask what one's reading?) or that puts me on the spot about holidays because with the best will in the world I am not going to tell the practice nurse we are off either to our home in the South of France or ski-ing in Aspen. That would really piss them off.

@BabyBin there is a welfare state in France you know. It's far more socialist a country than the UK. The problem is that the NHS is not working and isn't as good as social insurance models in Europe. It is built on gratitude borne of inferring the public should adopt a position of supplicant.

@Junepassing the last time a nurse chatted drivel at me she blew a vein with the canula. I'd have preferred it if she'd been concentrating on what she was doing rather than the colour of my shoes to be perfectly honest. Perhaps if she'd been concentrating she might not have blown the vein.

@Theheartandtheshape I'd rather have a consult nurse who specialises in that condition than. Junior doctor on their first rotation who has absolutely no idea about the speciality!

@RosesAndHellebores

Veins blow all the time. Chat or no chat.

Your posts read like a woman desperate to demonstrate to everyone how intelligent, rich and above the rest of she is. In my humble little job as a simpleton nurse, I’ve come across people from all walks of life, and I’ve always found that the truly rich, intelligent or sophisticated are the most low key bunch of the lot, nothing to prove to anyone, usually very secure in themselves, as well as patient, kind and grateful about the care and attention they receive. I’m getting very different vibes from your posts, however.

I’m sure the practice nurse would have no issue with you saying you were going on holiday to France. But if you phrase it like you have here; “we are off to our home in the south of France”, the unnecessary detail gives you away as desperate for validation and kudos and she’ll probably think you’re bloody hilarious.

@RosesAndHellebores I am not going to tell the practice nurse we are off either to our home in the South of France or ski-ing in Aspen. That would really piss them off.

Why would it piss them off..? What a strange way to think. You know some of the plebs get holidays too, some of us can even ski! Also you could just say France, or a skiing holiday. No need to try to show off, I'm sure nobody's impressed anyway.

IME HCPs putting people at their ease when appropriate is often an essential element of a successful consult or other appointment and most patients, more so the elderly, the nervous and often those who haven't visited the practice for years value exceptionally highly. Many frequent flyers request HCPs by name and remember and complain at those who aren't chatty.

Some of these comments are just humble bragging at their finest.

How lovely .....

@ZealAndArdour and that's exactly what I'd let the nurse think in rl, but it isn't the service I actually want and I'm sure it isn't what the charming and humble people you refer to want either. What comes out of the mouth in rl isn't what comes off the keyboard on MNet but it's how many people feel and I think you shoukd think about it. How many nurses would say to an ethnically diverse person "ha, ha that's a funny name name, where's it from?" None I imagine because they wouldn't be that rude but I've had it my entire life with both my maiden name and now my married name. Add in an unusual first name and the comments become beyond tiresome.

@MPharm yes I could just say France but that's where I'd like the conversation to stop because the nurse is a professional adviser not my chum and I don't want to overshare but that's never respected. What's wrong with "did you see the roadworks in the village" "isn't the blossom lovely in the park". There is no need for small talk to be personal.

@RosesAndHellebores you do realise that the nurse may have been “chatting drivel” to you thinking you may want/appreciate having your mind taken off the procedure? She may have been wrong in your case but a lot of people find it helpful.

I often find that HCPs do this as about to stick a needle In Me, suddenly ask me what I’ve seen on RV recently, etc. I don’t think they actually care and I doubt it’s distracting them from their main task. I’m competent at venepuncture and believe me I can talk shit and do it at the same time.

@QuebecBagnet indeed. Often also a way to get patients to say what's really on their mind. Not every patient is a logic machine and some actively conceal their real health concerns and hold back key information but surprisingly give clues when they reply with small talk.

Physician Associates are highly qualified health care professionals.

They can diagnose and treat. They currently are not regulated by a body, but this will soon change as they will come under GMC regulation.

PAs have more autonomy than a band 5 nurse.

I agree though, she should have introduced herself has a PA.

Vote for Tory
Vote for 2nd class NHS healthcare.
Expect better? Pay for private, Or vote Labour.

PAs are not "highly qualified" because they've done 1 unrelated degree and topped it up with a kind of watered down med degree.

That's like saying I'm highly qualified because I've got a BTEC in art and an A Level in Philosopy on top of my med degree. The other degree is irrelevant to medicine and doesn't count.

The issue is the poor quality of the PA course.

I must admit I struggled with the 'highly qualified' too but didn't want to post. Am mildly surprised more isn't made that they don't have a regulatory body as the appearance isn't a good look and much has been made of smaller issues though I suspect the main stream media are focusing on attacking GPs and don't want to dilute that. Does anyone find they add more value than the cost of supervision in primary yet? Ours are still relatively new so I don't have a feeling about steady state yet.

@RosesAndHellebores I am not going to tell the practice nurse we are off either to our home in the South of France or ski-ing in Aspen. That would really piss them off.

Why would it piss them off?

I've got a house in Southern France. I hardly ever mention it in real life to shine (regardless of their job) because I don't want them to think I'm a boastful knob.

Should read:
I've got a house in Southern France. I hardly ever mention it in real life to anyone (regardless of their job) because I don't want them to think I'm a boastful knob.

Funny how nobody picks up on the rudeness about names or the inability to carry out procedures. Oh I am such a dreadful human. Funny how I don't think I've ever been as rude as certain nurses to any other human.

Any way as I have said I think Physician Associates will in the fullness of time have a great deal more to offer than the average nurse who got into nursing via an access course. At least they will have studied for academic A'Levels in academic subjects in order to enrol on an academic degree course.

As if A Levels is what makes a good doctor.

A medical degree makes you a doctor. Nothing else comes close.

What you're expressing is classism. There's no material difference between PAs and ANPs, both are an attempt to shortcut medical eduction.

Funny how some people have constant appalling interactions with NHS professionals. I’m reminded of one of my favourite quotes; if you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.

I have very regular intervention by medical professionals and have spent many weeks in various hospitals in various areas of the country. I have come across rude and incompetent medical professionals, of course but on the whole, most are decent. I don’t believe the NHS is a sacred cow nor that needs are angels but I aim to be polite. I don’t ever walk in thinking im better than a “nurse who did an access course. I often build a good relationships with those who care for me based on mutual respect.I have complained where care has fallen below par.

Your negative experience is maybe related to the way you speak to people - both on here and in real life.

They do have a regulatory body with professional standards and sit a national exam. So they are well regulated.

@Teder

Could not have put it better 👏👏👏

I'm sorry your health situation means you need so much medical intervention.

Please tell me about your experience of the PA courses? Have you been to every university in the country and evaluated each course? How about people from the uk paying to study medicine in Europe at substandard universities that aren't validated by the gmc or does that not count because they're drs?
The amount of misinformation and plain ignorance in this thread is ridiculous. Yes I am a PA and no I've never wanted to be a Dr. I was a qualified nurse with 8 years experience before doing a 2 year masters to become a PA. PAs come from all sorts of healthcare backgrounds such as nursing, midwifery, paramedic, biomed and I even know of some Dr's who have become PAs.
PAs do not just work 9-5, I worked nights and weekends in A&E and shockingly to some of you, I diagnosed patients all by myself.
We are trained to diagnose and order investigations and yes we know the reasons behind why we are ordering them.
The only reason we can't order radiation or prescribe is because of the regulation issue, not because we aren't capable or competent.
I just find it utterly ridiculous that healthcare professionals are making comments about other healthcare professionals in a time where people can't see a GP or people are waiting 12 hours in A&E. Yes there will be crap PAs, just like there are crap drs and nurses but there's more than enough work to go around.
If you don't understand the role or training involved then feel free to ask, but don't make statements that aren't true.

@Rugbyleague

You just did exactly what you were criticising others for.

I am thankful for my international colleagues and there is a list of universities that are not acceptable for registration and then there is the world medical school register ( unsure of exact name). So your information is inaccurate). Not to mention the PLAB exam, visas and other hoops these doctors have to jump through.

I am appreciative of PA’s/physios/advanced practitioners and admin staff because we are/should be all working towards the same goal in the same organisation.

Direct your anger at the Government of who are clearly not informing the public of changes within the workforce.

Hi,

Why would a doctor want to become a PA rather than work at trust level?

As i have said previously, those with nursing/ clinical backgrounds make great PAs. However, do you really think PAs from biomes and other science backgrounds (especially sports science) have the same lateral thinking to link pathophysiological processes with presenting signs and investigation findings rather than algorithms use or pattern recognition? If this could be learnt in 2 years why would medical school be necessary?

What guided you decision to be a PA rather than ANP? (I have a friend who was a nurse then PA then ANP)

Thanks 😊