Is it better to spoil your paper or just not vote?

[cremeeggsonboxingday]

I am really struggling with deciding who to vote for tomorrow in the local election. To be honest, I can't bring myself to vote for any of them. I'm just wondering what would be the best way to make an impact. Would a low voter turn out send a message or would it be better to write exactly what I think of them all on my paper?

Yabu = don't vote
Yanbu = spoil your paper

Why should I vote for people I don't want to?

Because these people will be running your local services for the coming years. And setting the cost of your council tax.

It's not a case of if you don't vote there wont be a council. you can only choose from those who stand, so of those which do you think will do better (or least worst).

And then work out how to get better candidates in the future. Council elections are perhaps local enough for independent candidates to make some headway.

People always seem to think bins, potholes and schools. But social care, in particular adult social care is the next crisis about to hit, and who is making the decisions in your local council is going to be just as important as the shaping policy set in the centre. And those are the sorts of things I want to have some say over. Even if the current candidates all have drawbacks, there are definitely some I think are preferable to others

This. I spoilt my paper in the last general election but I can’t not vote. It feels like such ingratitude to those brave women who fought so hard for us to be able to vote.

My first count was 20 years ago - that was the one where a city council ward that was neck-and-neck was won by just 2 votes.

I wasn't in their 'huddle'; but there were recounts, and I heard it became quite lively over the 'spoiled' rejected ballots.

I've also seen terrible drunkenness and full on fighting (men) at counts. It can be quite ... dramatic.

Where I live only 1/3 of the cllrs are up for re-election, however, due to the conservative strong hold in the area, even if all of the votes received tomorrow were for all other parties standing it wouldn’t change anything. On that basis I really don’t see much point in voting.

There's got to be something seriously wrong with a party system specifically designed so that your choice ends up being 'this one' or 'that one' - and that's effectively it. 40-odd million adults in this country and we put up with being told that we can have Person A or Person B to run the country - except that we don't even get that choice if the majority of people just in our 1/650th part of the country happen to prefer the other person.

We kind of awkward-laugh in a resigned way about most of our PMs being old Etonians, without ever getting properly angry about it (maybe because we know we're already shafted and it's futile anyway). Something in the system is designed so that anybody* can rise to the top if they're the best person for the job.

*as long as they just so happen to be one of the tiny fraction of a fraction of 1% of all British people who attended one particular school - which also means they will be male, rich and highly likely white.

That did a weirdy bold thing that seemed to be a legacy of the old format?!

No one is fighting for my vote though.
I've had one labour leaflet and one lib dem leaflet. That's it. No ones knocked on the door, no one cares what I vote cos a cat in a red rosette would win. Still it is very important to me that women are recognised. And this time around only one party knows what a woman is. So in this election I'm voting for them, but I reserve the right to spoil a ballot at any time.
I dont even care if not one person sees it. I know I did the right thing by turning up and making my views clear, if no one wants to know my views, that's on them not bothering to engage with me and shows up that they still dont care about women.

I'll vote because women fought hard for me to have it but I'll be spoiling my paper. Conservative or Labour? No thank you, not today.

This is pretty much the same as not voting at all and is beyond pointless. Women fought to give you the vote. So use it if you respect that and make the difficult decision on who to vote for. Spoiling your paper is jist silly nonsense.

Spoiling a ballot paper is a nice, high-minded idea in theory but I can guarantee no politican gives a shit about it and it will send no message. Either save your time and stay home or accept that democracy often means voting for your least-disliked candidate because politics is compromise.

I've stood as a candidate twice and all spoiled papers are shown to the candidates before announcing the results.So they will get any messages you write. Whether it will have any impact on the Parties' policies, I don't know but it all helps eh ??

I think there's also the elephant in the room that, whoever gets in - locally or nationally - so little ever seems to change, apart from a handful of mavericks who manage to slip through the net (which can be a good or bad thing, depending on their policies, thought processes, bravery and true intentions).

How much actually changes - really? Even when candidates/oppositions do bother to properly oppose what the incumbent is doing, how often does that translate into actual transformation if they ever get in?

All levels of politics seem to me to be like the 'limited-time' specials menus at McDonalds: in theory, it's a radically unique product, carefully designed and curated in honour of some event or another; but in reality, it's still 99% the same old burger but just with a bit of extra lettuce or a slightly different sauce.

Until we make political manifestoes and promises from all candidates legally binding (unless there are genuine unforeseen circumstances which prevent them from honouring them - as adjudicated by a large independent online panel made up of diverse members of the public), it's all a farce, really.

Anybody can promise to give you the Moon on a stick when they know that, if you accept their offer, they can instantly renege on it with no comeback. They get away without honouring their side of the bargain but we don't have that luxury for another four years, before it begins all over again and we get a slightly different shade of wool pulled over our eyes.

If you want to get a message thru then arrange an in-person appointment. Get a few minutes with each candidate and longer with incumbents. If you can't get appointment with candidates, talk to their agents, ring their office ,send a letter. Is it only the Brits who can believe that a 2 second passive aggressive action is more potent than in-person communication? Even writing a letter has more influence than a spoilt ballot. The majority of spoilt ballots are just a line thru all candidate boxes, btw. That's the main impression anyone would get at looking at most of them. People were grumpy and no idea why. Says nothing about why, means nothing.

Do completely blank ballots get counted as spoilt? I can't remember. Plenty of those, too.

Spoiling a ballot paper is a nice, high-minded idea in theory but I can guarantee no politican gives a shit about it and it will send no message.

Well, we've had it confirmed on this thread by those with direct experience that the politicians are able to see all spoiled ballots. I think the fact that so few of them actually bother to do so, and to find out what the people they hope to represent think, only serves to validate the suggestion that they weren't worthy of receiving the vote in the first place. If enough people spoiled their ballots, I daresay they would care then - if the number of spoilt ballots started to approach the share of votes that one of the main contenders could expect/hope to receive.

We all know that we'll never have a perfect candidate to vote for, and that democracy is about compromise; but what do you seriously do if, no matter how much you hold your nose, you just find all of the choices offensive for major reasons?

Supposing we were having a massive new 'Greatest Briton' poll - with a knighthood/damehood on offer for the winner - and with the choices made by a panel of highly dubious unknown 'experts' and their two finalists presented to us for us to choose our 'absolute favourite': either Piers Morgan or Katie Hopkins - with the winner being paraded through the country in an open-topped bus and sent all around the world as a prominent ambassador representing everything that the UK stands for and the sincerely-held values of the majority.

How would you respond to that 'election'? Would you choose to endorse the one you like more than the other, do nothing and let everybody else decide on your behalf (no grumbling allowed afterwards that you didn't vote for them, mind) or make your protest so that, even if it came to nothing, you could hold your head up high and know/confirm that you did cast your ballot but that you did not vote for either of these people? And political elections are (theoretically) much further reaching than that.

Is it only the Brits who can believe that a 2 second passive aggressive action is more potent than in-person communication

But you could equally say that a vote for 'anybody but the Tories', even if you can't really abide any of the others is also passive aggressive - it's just that it's indistinguishable from an identical vote from somebody else who strongly believes in that same person/party as the perfect candidate to get the job done, or maybe isn't 100% behind them, but has nevertheless actively chosen to endorse them.

If you do send a letter/email, how many politicians do you think will genuinely care about it? Yes, you'll get a reply, but most likely a standard response from some lowly admin person saying "X has asked me to thank you for your much-appreciated comments and to assure you that they will be taken on board...." before they get shoved into the back of a drawer somewhere.

Even if you can get a face-to-face audience with them, they will tell you whatever you want to hear or bluster/lie their way out of it/kick it into the long grass/gaslight you. Everybody knows that the best people for the job would be the mythical people whose beliefs and intentions are sold to you in the campaigns and manifestoes, but that if you vote for them, they always get taken hostage and replaced by imposters with the same names and appearances but with radically different actions.

Personally I think spoiling your vote is a pretty pointless exercise. It's a waste of everybody's time.

Is it only the Brits who can believe that a 2 second passive aggressive action is more potent than in-person communication?

Pretty much, yeah. Up the revolution ✌🏻😆

Well, we've had it confirmed on this thread by those with direct experience that the politicians are able to see all spoiled ballots. I think the fact that so few of them actually bother to do so, and to find out what the people they hope to represent think, only serves to validate the suggestion that they weren't worthy of receiving the vote in the first place. If enough people spoiled their ballots, I daresay they would care then - if the number of spoilt ballots started to approach the share of votes that one of the main contenders could expect/hope to receive.

'If voters did something in great enough numbers it would have an effect' is true of any action, spoiled ballots included, but either way the winner of any election will happily take the win and ignore those who didn't help get them there.

As for the Morgan/Hopkins election, a low turnout would tell the story just as well as spoiled ballots. Perhaps moreso, given how attention-hungry those two are.

There's a hierarchy how much politicians care about communications & opinions they receive. It adjusts in response to how 'safe' their seat is. However, in no situation does a spoilt ballot carry more weight than a face to face meeting or even a written letter, or even an email with your signed name on it. Even public tweets will influence a politician more than an anon. spoilt ballot can.

A spoilt ballot is a very weak way to send a message.

This. I would always just vote for my least hated candidate. It shows engagement and I suspect (at best) no one gives a sh*t about anything else and (at worst) in some areas the leading candidates actively WANT people who don't like them to waste their vote.

The frustrating thing about all this advice for those of us who do not want to give a vote to anyone of any political persuasion who can't be sure what a women is and why we need to use clear sex categories, is that telling candidates why that is important has led no where.

There have been multiple and huge and well publicised discussions with GC feminists pointing out what a vote loser this issue is, how it is really a one issue voting situation for many of is. And yet, they double down, lecture, virtue signal and ignore.

I can not vote for someone who thinks a man locked up with vulnerable prisoners is ok.

Nobody is saying that spoiling ballot papers is going to lead to political change

Many of us here are taking various actions and campaigning about certain issues, but in these elections that is not helping us decide where to put an X. So what to do with the ballot paper is a legitimate question for those of us who wish to engage in the political process in some way.

This time around and the last few times, there is no compromise to be had. Women matter. It's that simple.
I mean I've found a compromise this time but I'm not happy about it. I personally judge that letting them know via my ballot how much I believe women matter is worth it. This once only. And if they dont listen and fix what's wrong then they won't get it next time or any time until I deem they've done enough. I will spoil until I'm bloody noticed.
Spoiling ballots is legal, a form of political protest that doesn't actively hurt anyone. What the suffragettes wanted was me to have a choice, not force me into voting.

Absolutely especially this part -

My belief is that it would indicate to candidates that I was willing to turn up and spend my time in the process of voting - but not for any of you fuckers. My vote is here, you just have to show me why it's yours. It was up for grabs and you all failed.

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I don't necessarily care if my picture or slogan isn't appreciated in detail but this is as good a message to get across as any.

Not sure what answer you're expecting if you already accept that spoileing your ballot won't make a difference. If you don't want to do that or stay home then you have to pick your red lines and vote accordingly.