To think that US states who want to ban abortion should be able to?

[allsorts1]

Abortion is such a fraught topic in the US. Would it really be so bad to just let the states who want to ban abortion do so, and leave it in the hands of the states themselves to decide? It seems that the Roe v Wade decision has caused a lot of tension in the context of the USA and the feeling that states should be independent and able to choose their own laws (e.g different laws on capital punishment).

Would it be a completely terrible thing for each state to decide on this, and then live with the consequences (as presumably many young people/liberals would relocate to different states where abortion is legal?). Maybe if they experience brain drain they will change their tune. People aren’t forced to live in a certain state.

Obviously I am completely aware this will have a huge negative impact on women in poverty as they have less options. So this is a key consideration and concern.

But I’m just really thinking out loud. I am very much pro-choice, but interested in views from people who understand US law and politics… could the overturning of Roe v Wade potentially be positive in that it settles the issues, states can decide, and everyone can talk about something else?

Or would it just mean that there is a gradual encroachment on women rights and then the pro-lifers start lobbying in pro-choice states and abortion rights are even further reduced. Another risk could be that abortion becomes a political issue every election in every state, and switches back and forth from being legal to illegal - causing massive headaches….

Interested to hear everyone’s thoughts!

This. Interested in your answer @Thehundredthnamechange

Not everyone can just up and move state. Poverty, childcare, family support, jobs, friends, all reasons why it is not easy to just up and move on incase you do need to have an abortion one day. Outlawing it reintroduces shame because you are doing something 'illegal'. They have absolutely shit maternity leave in the US and its dependent on the employer. Im on a Facebook group for babies born at the same time as mine and so many mothers had to go back so much more quickly than they wanted too because their employer didn't need to keep their jobs secure. They do not have a generous benefit system or support mothers once they have the children yet some States want to force women into keeping unwanted pregnancies.

Let's also outlaw appendectomies too. They're both healthcare procedures. Don't want to die from appendicitis? Should have thought of that before deciding to live in America 🙃

sarcasm, just in case it wasn't entirely obvious

If this was about protecting life, then there would be an exception for ectopic pregnancy, which will never result in a baby and will almost certainly kill the mother. But this is all about keeping women in subservience and poor people in poverty.

Women are the only disadvantaged group it is still ok to hate and discriminate against, it seems. So fucking annoyed at all the times "cis privilege" is hurled at women on social media. Some privilege to be a woman in this world.

Won't banning abortion make rape a very attractive option to some people as the victim won't be able to do anything about it?

Want children, but not to have to raise them yourself? Rape a woman

Want to bankrupt a poor woman? Rape her

Think that women shouldn't be in the workforce? Rape them repeatedly so that they cannot afford childcare to work

Think that there make be a drop in prison population/slave labour? Rape women to make the numbers go back up

Think that there aren't enough babies to adopt/traffic? Rape women

I just don't see how any of this can be seen as ethical.

Think that there aren't enough babies to adopt/traffic? Rape women

Given the fact that fostered/abused/traumatised /chikdren growing up in.poverty, children have far poorer outcomes amd are far more likely to end up running away or falling victim to sex traffickers it is indeed ensuring a steady supply of victims to feed one of the most profitable set ups in the world.

But yay the kids alive. What a bloody low bar 😢

even Thinking this is not pro choice. A woman should always have full and final say over her body. Marital rape was still legal a few decades ago, domestic violence was ‘just a domestic’ and women fad to either have unwanted children
or resort to desiderata measures to end a pregnancy. Drink a full bottle of gin whilst sitting in a scalding bath, throwing themselves downstairs, pushing a knitting needle or coat hanger up through the cervix or using a back street clinic…,let’s all go back in time to those with regular days where women were not safe!

It isn't.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8909/

There may be no mass exodus on a permeant basis but Abortion clinics in England are quite busy with NI and Irish women, you can pay for a coffee in Euros if you are waiting for a friend.

I am not anti abortion but believe there should be very strict time limits - the second a baby could survive outside of the womb, I think that should be the cut off point. Ideally much before that point - I personally think that no later than 8-10 weeks is most ethical. In some states there was talk of changing the rules so that abortion could continue up until the baby was 1 month OUT of the womb. Up until 1 month old, you can leave a baby to die and it would be considered abortion. That, to me, is far more grotesque and evil than banning abortion altogether. So America is very divided to the extremes on this issue

You really honestly don't believe that anyone has ever advocated for allowing a month old baby to die do you? That's the most stupid thing I've ever read on here and that's saying something.

This can be argued back and forth and it's unlikely anyone's opinion is going to be changed on here.

The fact is that abortion is about women having rights over their own bodies. It's got nothing to do with a clump of cells having the 'right to life' it's all about women's autonomy or lack thereof.

What anti-abortionist are voting for is their 'right' to keep women in their 'place'.

I'm almost positive that this argument, hauled out to explain why pro abortion types just can't be trusted.... was a rabbit hole that has been surprisingly effective for people who already have low levels of practical reasoning.

I vaguely remember people shouting about this. IIRC, the argument was that Pro Choice types who want abortion to be legal with no limits are, apparently, super happy for abortion to take place at, for example, 39 weeks. The suggestion being that women get to 39 weeks and then just randomly decide to terminate (obviously, accompanied with lots of heartfelt images of very pregnant women).

The next step in the argument was that many many babies are born way before this and survive just fine.

Ergo (apparently), we may as well allow the murder of 1 month old infants because that's what abortion is.

It was a ridiculous and spurious argument then. But clearly effective if people like that poster think it was true. Sigh.

The problems in Ireland(the Republic) is getting access to a Dr who will prescribe the abortion pill and the ridiculous 3 day waiting period.

Oh dear lord I remember the Savita Halappanavar story. Utterly heartbreaking. An non viable pregnancy but the mother being allowed to die in what was probably excruciating pain because of confusion about how the law in Ireland related to this case.

^^ this

I think many people outside the US don't realise how vastly different individual states are from one another and how many people in fact never leave their home states.

Don’t be so stupid OP. Seriously.

Actually, are people really this stupid? Or is it just a post intended to inflame?

I haven’t RTFT because the removal of women’s rights is making me feel sick and I can’t bear reading 13 pages on it. But one thing I hadn’t realised until recently is that obviously American healthcare is not free (at point of service, like the NHS) so people have to pay for abortions - and the later the procedure is performed the more complex and therefore expensive it is. So as a poor woman, if you find your pregnant and start saving for abortion, by the time you’ve saved enough you might be further gone and so need more money…adding the cost of travelling to another state is just going to amplify this already horrific issue.

And it's not just an issue in the US. We should all care:

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/may/03/erosion-of-abortion-rights-gathers-pace-around-the-world-as-us-signals-new-era

You can't say 'I'm pro choice, but.....' there should be no limitations. This situation in the states is terrifying, if it goes through it will be a quick slippery slope for women in America which will have serious consequences.

Plus, don't believe for a minute that this won't trickle into the UK too eventually.

Ahhhh this is what people were talking about on tiktok!

What a load of ol bollocks!

It absolutely will!

If a woman gets pregnant from rape and then aborts it, the new rules state something like the rapists family can each sue the woman for 20k!

If you wanted to rape someone, the idea you could make some serious cash off it would make it even more appealing. Plus the min prison sentence for abortion is suggested to be 10 years. Rape? 5 years!

Yes. Women will die if you ban abortion. For various reasons.

Yabu no one plans for an abortion. You can't move states 'in case' you'll need one.

The USA is a huge country, allowing states to choose will effectively mean that vast swathes of the centre won't have access, areas with high levels of poverty. Also if parents/ partners don't approve, also in abuse situations you cannot go across 3-4 states unnoticed, it takes a long time especially if you have to go by Greyhound bus, all assuming you have the money. It's bad enough that contraception is often restricted in these states. I lived on the west coast where abortion was available on demand covered by health insurance at the normal drs, quite a difference

If you were a pregnant young girl with no money, how would you manage to travel to another state confidentially?

I’ve never seen such a ridiculous post