To think doctors, specifically GP's need to change their approach to patients

[GlasswareisOverated]

We live in the technological age. We have access to information at our fingertips, that someone fifty years ago, hell even twenty years ago would not have been able to comprehend.
Am I being unreasonable to think that drs need to lose the 'we know best about everything medical' attitude.

Obviously I won't be performing brain surgery any time soon or stripping legs of vascular veins to be used in cardiac surgery but I can read a laboratory report and understand what it means and I can get the gist of most medical studies.

"Half of what you are taught in medical school will be wrong in 10 years’ time. The trouble is, none of your teachers know which half"
Former dean of Harvard medical school, Sydney Burwell.

Personally, I feel that my GP does treat me with respect, but equally, I respect the many years of study and experience that she has in her field, and I wouldn't for a moment suppose that I could match that - or even come close to that, frankly - from a bit of googling and a layperson's reading of a few lab reports.

Doctors are human, so they are not perfect. There will be things that they don't know, and there will be things that they get wrong. However, I think you're being incredibly dismissive of the expertise and experience that it has taken them years to acquire.

OP - I am a doctor, have 5 degrees and am an expert in my field.

When I got sick and I meanly badly sick, struggled on for months, denial was the best medicine, googled treatments etc - I lost my objectivity.

It took one of my colleagues to take me aside and say - stop look ignore google, go back to basics and marched me into the correct person who could sort me out. I had convinced my self via google etc that I could manage this - I could not, I damn near ended up on ITU.

It is not about the diagnosis - it is about all the holistic shit I needed around my illness.

Do not self diagnose do not self treat you are not objective

But surely doctors do know best about medical matters.

I bloody hope so anyway, isn't that what they train for?

I'm an intelligent adult but I'm not medically trained. I want someone who is and who knows what they're doing when it comes to dealing with my medical conditions and who can advise me accordingly.

I've had dealing with many doctors in my fairly long life and yes, years ago a lot of doctors had an 'I know best' attitude but it's been many years since I've come across a doctor like that. In my experience things have greatly improved in that regard and everything is always fully discussed.

Yes, I suppose I could read a medical report but, as with the majority of people, most of it would mean very little to me. And anyway, what would be the point and how would it help my treatment. Even doctors need other doctors to treat them when they're unwell.

But alternatively, of course, I could always go on Google and make my own decision as to whether I need to go with option A, or chose option B and just cut my own leg off. If that's what Doctor Google advises.

I admit I question stuff but my diagnosis was missed for 7/8 years

It's infuriating conversations like
I have AIN
Ok but your bloods are fine so you aren't neutropenic
Yes, because I injected GCSF yesterday so my neutrophils are high today but I still have AIN that's why I am on GCSF
So why do you have it?
It's autoimmune
Why do you have that?

Well if I knew what caused autoimmune diseases I would be a rich woman

Add to that the doctor that told me I must have misunderstood that I had that because it was a children's disease that they grow out of.. he ended up ringing my consultant who wasn't very happy

And being told my bloods are "normal". I need the actual results so I can alter medication and vitamin D. If my vitamin D is on the lower end of normal I'll up my dose a bit as I've been severely deficient before. Normal is no help!

Well, I passed by a doctor in A&E recently who was googling 'how to treat a wound sealed by glue plaster' or similar. I just noticed it as I had ordered some online! Lol. He was then talking to another colleague and said that it was a child and that it had become infected underneath the seal. So google is king sometimes.

I have noticed that GPs do not meet patients anymore. Everything is econsults. And then the 8am fastest finger first. And then the infuriating text which reads 'please make an appointment with the doctor to discuss your recent tests'. Well I would, if I could get through! And if you can text, why not just give an appointment while you're texting?

I have been a little let down by GPs recently. Let down is sort of an understatement actually. Apart from referring you, on the basis of a phone call, they don't seem to actually do anything anymore apart from to drop balls.

I'd agree with PP above. I work in an out patient clinic with long term conditions. Some of my patients especially those with years of issues are experts, treating them is a discussion about what's next and their aims and goals. New patients I always say tell what you know and how much do you want to know. Some have great info and good understanding others would harm themselves based on their knowledge and Dr Google, this includes patients who are educated to PhD level in one case in a related field. YABU that reading lab results could be done by a Non Medic or AHP! Lab results are a tiny part of managing a health issue.

Most members of the public cannot do this.

You only have to Look at how many people do crackpot diets each year to know that people need clear instructions from doctors.
Look at some of the absurd rumours about vaccines we have seen recently.

If you are capable of understanding more, then ask your gp pertinent, relevant questions and I'm sure he or she will respond.

A couple of years ago I saw a GP who openly said 'I can't quite decide what it might be, let me quickly Google something", flipped the computer screen round to show me what they were looking at and asked me what I thought about a couple of things before diagnosing me (correctly, with something quite unusual, confirmed by a consultant following referral). I found it really refreshing and actively sought that GP out in future as I'd far rather see someone who acknowledged their lack of expertise in a certain area versus someone who fobs people off due to not wanting to admit it.

And an interesting point actually about holistic! There is no such thing in Western medicine. Various bits of me are under various specialities yet nobody but myself has thought to question why I was getting a lot of complaints which were inflammation in nature and also autoimmune in nature. And now that I know that, while I will wait for 'modern' medicine to treat my various respective bits lol, I'm going old-school. Ayurvedic and Chinese. And crackpots! I'm that fucking desperate. Necessity is the mother of invention. Western medicine hasn't evolved at the pace of dietary and lifestyle changes in the past 100 years. It's like we are so fucking past any textbook theory now that it's the old reliables that they trot out. Stress, diet, smoking, alcohol. Without having a clue, or even an iota of a suggestion of a clue as to what the hell to do!

I've had a few female GPs dismiss my symptoms as 'anxiety' (a common theme in women's healthcare) when I've actually gone on to be diagnosed with something physically wrong with me after persisting for a diagnosis and treatment.

Incidentally, I had a GP ask me in a rather accusatory tone recently whether I had a medical background! I said that I hadn't. He said it's just that not many patients are familiar or use the term tachy. I'm like, well, honey, unfortunately, overhearing it and asking 'what does that mean?' basically means that it's now a term I'm becoming all too familiar with. I've been 'tachy' all too often.

Tachy is the short version of tachycardic which medical professionals use to refer to a resting pulse over 100 bpm.

Anyone who watches any of the dozens of 999 medical fly-on-the-wall type shows knows what the term tachy means. You hear it all the time 😅😅.

It's like, back in the day, stress occupied our lives too! Whether it was from war, or infidelity, or multiple children, or poverty, or whatever the fuck. These things have always existed! Back even to the day when man brought food to cave. What has changed, is our exercise level and our diet. Pretty sure that imbibing is from 2000 years ago at least and hell knows when smoking arrived. But nothing has massively changed apart from our activity levels. Physically. And our diets in the West to accommodate ever more demanding pressures on our time. We don't have community. We don't have a lot of support sometimes. Isolation, despite being surrounded by people is also common. We can't just talk about our niggly knee anymore. Who would listen? So it all builds. And medicine hasn't caught up.

No 1 person is going to get it right all the time.

Google can be helpful, but it can lead down a rabbit hole - over-investigation can be actively harmful (eg unnecessary radiation exposure) as well as wasting resources.

I'll keep that in mind next time I'm accused of being some undercover medic lol

Yanbu but I also understand why people disagree as the reality is the average person probably can’t interpret medical literature or laboratory reports well.

I’m autistic and one of my niche interests is obsessively keeping up to date with medical literature for my skin condition and similar skin conditions. (I don’t tell other people as I know it sounds like a ’sad’ interest haha).

I’ve been asked a few times during consulations with private dermatologists whether I have a medical background.

My experience with NHS gps hasn’t always been great. Once a qualified NHS GP told me to ‘drink more water’ and ‘eat more fruit’ for my severe discoid eczema. 🙃 I wasn’t even there for treatment/advice, I had just gone for insurance referral letter so I could see a derm.
Most GP’s aren’t well informed on skin issues even ‘common’ inflammatory skin conditions - I don’t expect them to be specialists but I was disappointed the doctor was so ignorant, and gave such patronising advice.

Quite a few times when I’ve suspected I had something, been misdiagnosed, only to later finally get the diagnosis of what I originally suspected. I’m a woman of colour so that probably doesn’t help. 🤷‍♀️

I don't think it's about reading tbh. Even nurses rely upon the doctors in the hospitals and the GP surgeries. I do not understand what OP is asking from her post.

How technical do you want your GP to get because there's a lotnof people that may not understand I don't think it matters about the fancy terms as long as my GP was kind and caring Inwould be happy tbh.

@dhaka22 skin conditions are quite hard to identify if you look closely many look similar. On a dark skin I think it's even harder sorry but it's hard enough getting a decent emollient prescribed from the GP for a dark skin tone your right about that part. Although you could asked to be referred to a dermatologist.

Mainly I feel like screaming - read my file!!!

I'm pretty sure that would not help me though.

I’ve watched all 18 seasons of Greys Anatomy so I’m 99% sure I could actually be a doctor if I wanted to be.

I think my thoughts on this topic are different for diagnosis than they are for treatment. Where treatment is concerned, anyone can read the NICE guidelines. For diagnosis, patients are always going to be closer to their symptoms but doctors should (in theory!) be better at objectively interpreting them.

Yes I agree. Many patients have come across research that a gp wouldn't have time to read in much depth as their scope is so wide. They should start taking that on board.

I had an acute pulmonary response to a specific antibiotic recently. It's vital that I never have it again. My GP has written on my notes that I'm 'anxious' about taking it. Why? Because they haven't heard of the pulmonary response (easily found in two minutes) and I didn't have swelling.

Another gp told my friend she didn't need contraception because it was impossible for her to get pregnant while she was breast feeding. She had an unexpected extra child and spent a year hospitalised because she couldn't cope with another child so soon after the first. The GP should have listened when she ventured to say doubtfully that she didn't think the advice was right.

I developed serotonin syndrome recently and needed to change meds. A. GP who looked about 17 didn't take her eyes off the screen and offered an alternative. I'd read that the alternative would make my symptoms worse (later confirmed by a consultant). She shrugged her shoulders and said she didn't know anything about serotonin syndrome and did I want the prescription.

Another friend went to the GP about her awful PMT. He said he'd never heard of it and googled it as she waited. Then he offered her diazapam. She said she didn't think those drugs should be handed out for an ongoing condition. She knew that. He didn't.

I went to a GP with a serious eye infection (was hospitalised two days later and it should have been caught earlier as there were many ulcers by that time). The GP was actually wearing slippers. She handed me something that was almost identical to what I had been using.

None of these excuses for doctors will ever receive feedback on how awful they are.

I'm sure there are many lovely GPs but I'm personally tired of pretending the rest are actually doing something. The least they could do is accept the patient might know something, if they're going to be so pathetic.

Interestingly the service is completely different when I access medical care on the NHS via family members who are medics. I think doctors can be useless if they want to be because they can enjoy NHS Premium if they get ill. And they'd probably bother to read the reference books if it came to that.

Typed a really long post, have managed to screen shot it so I will be adding the hugely long post as screenshots.

YABU. Yes, doctors can be very arrogant. They’re sometimes wrong. Yes, we can get a lot of information from the internet. But there’s also an awful lot of misinformation and downright rubbish too. A lot of people aren’t able to interpret some of the info out there correctly either.
Covid has been a great example of this. The amount of complete baloney that a lot of people have believed is astonishing. And some people believe that because they’ve read some articles online they can argue against a virologist or infectious disease consultant.

Can't be dealing with retyping right now and the screenshots are not clear. Will log onto laptop and retype using the screenshots in the morning.