DD on cause for concern PGCE

[feelikeraindrops]

My DD is on her PGCE, she has been on a cause for concern which has been reviewed and she’s been told she’s made good progress in some of her targets but there are some areas that need fine tuning and working on still. Because of this she has been put on the next stage of a cause for concern.

DD is feeling worried about passing but I’ve told to try her best and just listen to and respond to feedback, which she is determined to do.

100%. You are acting all the time and if you can't do that you can't get your subject knowledge across. Relationships are the most important thing.

So, the OP has posted in AIBU and her opening post isn't very clear....can we stop with the bullying...and the point of this post is??? I would listen to @ICannotRememberAThing and try to put this in into practice. I think she will pass (she has come this far).

I agree that teaching may not be for your dd sadly . I'm an ex teacher and wasn't great on pgce but never even heard the phrase cause for concern so as others have said this may be a sign teaching is not for her.
I know everyone has different strengths but I think most people who are drawn to teaching find forming positive relationships the easy bit (behaviour management is usually the hardest bit for new teachers) and this is often a reason people want to be teachers
If she's not forming relationships with pupils this will impact on their learning and school experience . Saying that teaching is putting in a performance and she can develop these skills -has she been focusing to much on behaviour management maybe ? Eg going for a strict persona and got this a bit wrong by not wanting to never ro 'drop her guard' for example ?

Relationships with parents are also very important in Primary. Think of all the letters on MN from people talking about the teachers who aren't interested when they try to talk about their children's problems. Maybe the teacher is just shy but he/she needs to be able to listen and be reassuring. Whether the problem is really quite small or needs escalating the parent needs to feel they are competent. If the OPs daughter struggles to do this with children it will be harder with parents.

I disagree.
She is on a PGCE because she is training to be a teacher.
Trainees have mentors at school and university. A good mentor advises, discusses, passes on their experience, supports.
A friend or parent can add extra support. I think it’s great that the OP wants to support, help and advise her DD.

All the OP wants to know is - What is the best way to do this? How can I help.

I’m nearly 50 and still look to my colleagues, friends, family & Mum for help or advice! I do the same for them.

OP, I get that you are concerned that your daughter might fail, but there is nothing you can do beyond the general sympathy and support you are already giving her. She is an adult and needs to be able to do things like ask for more help and support from tutors and mentors, listen to their advice and put it into practice. If she wants to be a teacher she needs to be able to do the job and it’s on her to demonstrate that she can. Or she has to accept that she can’t and find something else she’s better suited to. Either way, it’s on her and you can’t fix it for her.

Are you a teacher, @cansu? If you are then you will no doubt be familiar with teaching standard 8, which amongst other things requires teachers to ‘make a positive contribution to the wider life and ethos of the school’. A trainee nearing the end of their second placement should be playing an active role in the life of the school beyond their classroom walls.

A teacher of 25 years..gulp here. As others have said you are on 'stage' for hours at a time, there is nowhere to hide.. it is not a job you can have downtime in or make a cuppa. It's tough, really tough and on top of that you have admin and prep that take up your evenings and weekends that drain you. The holidays are rarely stress free as you can't mentally leave the work. I advised my own kids not to go into! Having seem the hours I work and stress for rubbish paid...they were not tempted...like many kids of teachers!
Unless she is very dedicated and mentally and physically robust she may struggle.
That said, if you can cope, it can be a wonderfully rewarding job.
It is a great qualification to have and many transferable skills. I would say give it a go, but there is no shame in realising its not for you. I wish her luck.

I actually thought a lot of people did struggle with their PGCE, but maybe it's the NQ year I am thinking of.

I agree that if she can get through it, it's great transferable skills, even if she decides she doesn't want to be a teacher in the end, but she needs to pass it first. As someone said, being a teacher is like being a performer all the time, so she needs to think about what her mentor has said, ask for advice in her placement school (probably easier said than done as I know some schools are not supportive) and ask her peers on the course.

I read Lucy Kellaway's book about becoming a teacher in later life and her lessons were picked apart by her mentors. I think the expectations of teachers are very high and you have to tick the boxes. It can't be that difficult to interact with the kids in the playground, for example.

For most people who choose primary teaching, interacting with and getting to know the children is the "easy" /nice bit, the bit they got into teaching for.

What made your DD choose teaching?

Can she find some kids groups to volunteer at to improve her skills without the pressure? Youth clubs/ Cubs/brownies etc are usually crying out for volunteers

I was a PGCE mentor in school for a number of years. In my time as a mentor, cause for concern only came up once and on that occasion, teaching just wasn't for them. Sometimes it happens.
It's quite late in the year to be a cause for concern. Building relationships is a key part of being a teacher. How would you feel if the teacher rarely spoke to your child outside of the classroom?
A teacher is someone who a child should be able to confide in if there's a problem.

Forming relationships with children is one of the absolute basics. Is she sure teaching is for her?

This. She could (theoretically) have a job in 5 months and if she cannot do this then she won't be an effective teacher.

'Cause for concern' may well be the final stage in a long process of additional support for your daughter.

It's not so much meeting the feedback but having the evidence that you've done so that's the big thing. Being shy is fine - I'm autistic and I taught for years and years - but I was always fine being "on" in front of the kids, and it was just at the end of the day when I dropped the mask that I burnt out.

So if she's been told she needs to be chattier and more engaged with the kids on the playground - how can she evidence that (and then if they carry on giving her hassle over it she'll have evidence to appeal against that) - taking the playground games comment someone mentioned earlier and something that I saw in a school I worked at - could she take a bit of a lead in setting something up like a "playground game of the week" that she uses some of the class kids to quickly demonstrate in assembly one morning and then there's stickers afoot for those kids who join in playing it on the yard when she's on duty... so she can show quite clearly that "you said I needed to do X, I've done Y"

University should be supporting her as well once concerns are raised.

I get it though - playground duty sometimes you do just want to switch your brain off a bit - but the kids want you to peel 57 million satsumas, watch 50 dance routines the girls have made up and tell you your choice of football team is shite ruthlessly (the football team were really shite to be fair). Then you're guaranteed to have at least three kids wanting to hold your hand and since you're only a two-armed creature and not an octopus - you end up having to navigate that! Schools really do appreciate it if you get caught up into the school life at large while on placement - my final PGCE report praised the fact I'd made a point of coming in for the summer fair and had also participated in watching the World Cup matches with the kids (no one else in our year group liked football and wanted to supervise the kids who wanted to watch the games so it was a hardship I was willing to endure) as well as the actual teaching stuff.

I'm also coming at this from having to navigate placement feedback recently for a different course which was somewhat similar in nature (see the comment about me being autistic) - so I contacted the uni staff, we discussed it, I made myself a plan of what I was going to be doing to be seen to be addressing points made - and I turned the whole thing around and passed it well in the end.

I am a teacher, I was cause for concern on my NQT. I passed, there was talk of doing an extra term, but in the end I made it. I'm still teaching about 20 years later. I am not a 'natural' teacher, I don't walk into a room and command the space, I'm not charismatic enough. However I do love working the the crazy school environment, I am passionate about education and I have had a decent career. I maybe should have run for the hills during PGCE - it is an absolutely brutal career even if you are great at it.

I now specialise in teaching children with SEN and I'm shit-hot at teaching kids who can't read at 11 to read well. It's my super-power. I have also discovered that some schools are just awful toxic places, and a change in leadership can change a previously lovely school to an awful place to work.

I'd encourage her to think really hard about whether she wants to continue. NQT year if anything is harder than PGCE (but it does start getting a bit easier after that). There are other jobs that are satisfying and useful and may better suit her, lots of jobs in health that involve working with children, but not 100s of them, social care and youth work are demanding, but in a different way. I'm currently completing a psychology degree with hopes of retraining to be an EP - I had no idea when I was making career choices at 21 that that was a thing, but I think it may be a better fit for my personality/skill set.

Forming relationships, whether in depth with your class, or on a less formal level in the playground, or lunch queue, or generally around the school, should be pretty much part of the DNA of a teacher, even if it’s the ‘face’ you wear during the school day. Not being able to do that instinctively is a major disadvantage.

Two terms in, it must have been on the radar long before now and if it’s not improving, I think she should question whether teaching is for her.

Time to rethink maybe.

Another PGCE mentor here OP - for many years and have only had one cause for concern- it really is more than just not quite being good enough.
Lots of my PGCE students have passed even though I knew they would not necessarily be a good teacher or have career longevity. Cause for concern is quite strong and she may then struggle to have a job, which makes it even harder.
I agree with others who have said the shyness is not compatible - you need a certain temperament and a proactive communication style.

I found whenever I've been in a school helping as a parent that I couldn't help interacting with children, they come to me, chat, hold my hand, even hug me 😮- If your DD finds it difficult then there're no shame in saying that this isn't for her. A good friend of mine did a BEd and found she couldn't do it after the tecahing practice, she hated it.

1. It's quite hard to fail a PGCE. You have to have consistently failed to make improvements for quite a while. You also have to be a bit crap. Sorry, but it's true. As a PCGE and School Direct mentor (in my time) I watched a fair few 'alright but in no way amazing' teachers pass the year because they weren't bad enough to fail.

1. The area you've given as an example (talking to the kids on playground duty) points to a bigger issue. Forming relationships is a huge part of teaching and the part that most teachers go into it (and stay) for - it's why they put up with the absolute crap that comes with teaching! If your daughter doesn't have that 'for the kids' motivation, she could find it really hard to cope when things get tough.

1. That said, they should be putting support in place - for example asking her to shadow or observe a teacher / TA in the playground, dining room or classroom who is known for building rapport easily.

1. Totally agree that she needs to find her persona. It takes a while to get it right but she's basically aiming for 'talking to the kids about their interests and lives (because who loves to talk more than most primary aged kids?!) and sharing the odd detail about her own life (children LOVE this, they still think that their teachers sleep in coffins in the basement).

To be honest she's going to have to get a grip on the shyness if she wants to carry on. I too am shy, verging on antisocial. School gate conversations at my son's pick up bring me out in a cold sweat. But as soon as I was in school that wasn't me. There's nothing wrong with being shy - until it stops you doing what you want to do. If what she wants to do is teach, she needs to work on that.

Best of luck to her. And thank goodness she isn't doing secondary - year 9 would eat her alive if there was even a shred of fear in her eyes.

I kno

Ooos, can't remember what I meant by 'I kno' so just ignore that 😂

It might not be a bad thing. I realised that teaching wasn't for me during my PGCE course. I didn't have any issues building relationships with the kids but I struggled with lesson planning and differentiating work for a large class. I've now been working for many years as a Youth Mentor in schools and also privately tutoring and it is definitely more suited to my strengths.

I think if teaching is not for you, it's better to find out during your PGCE. There's no shame in it.

I'd wonder how it was possible not to interact with children in the playground. When I was in primary teaching whoever happened to be on playground duty was constantly surrounded by children wanting to show them stuff, talk about their rabbit, get you to watch them do some skipping trip or whatever. I never had to make an effort to interact with them because they'd come running up anyway.

Is she perhaps portraying a "stand-offish" image, perhaps with body language - crossed arms etc, seems unfriendly etc? She should perhaps observe other people on playground duty, how they stand, how they move around the playground, facial expressions etc.

What else was flagged as an area for concern which you say she has improved on? There must be a bit more to this than meets the eye. Perhaps it's a general feeling from the school that teaching isn't the right fit for her.

If she doesn't enjoy interaction with the children or isn't able to overcome her shyness with them, then she really should think about a different career. It's the children who make teaching bearable - the fun you have with them and the various relationships. The rest of it is a really hard slog which you put up with because you enjoy working with children.

no but you need to pass it surely? Otherwise it's a massive waste of money and how do you explain it when you go for future jobs? You see enough posts on here about flakey people changing their minds about what they want to do.

It's one thing saying I decided teaching wasn't for me, quite another saying I failed the PGCE.