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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

ASD DS being banned from nursery

60 replies

Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:06

DS 4yrs with ASD, he's in receipt of an EHCP and due to start a special needs school in September which caters solely to autistic children. In the mean time he's at a special needs nursery, note 'special needs' as it's a nursery which advertises itself as being for disabled children who need extra support. Most of the children there have autism, and some have learning disabilities. We've had a few issues with them with things such as toilet training but didn't want to cause DS too much disruption as too many changes isn't good for him and hes leaving in July, they're OK for the most part.

Anyway DS has had a bad day today, not unusual for a small child with autism. He has meltdowns and does can sometimes throw things. The nursery know him well, he's been there 2 years. He's never been sent home due to meltdowns before, they just remove bim from the situstion and handle it. He's far from being the only child there with challenging behaviour.

Today OH has been told at pick up that if DS is having another bad day tomorrow then he can't go in "because there is small children there now" - the small children being new starters.

The nursery caters to children between the ages of 2 - 5 years.

AIBU to think that's not an acceptable reason to stop him going in? You can't exclude the older children for exhibiting the very behaviour you claim to be there to support.

She's going to call me at some point this evening to tell me the same as she told OH and I would appreciate some unbiased input as I don't want to go in all guns blazing if I'm being unreasonable.

OP posts:
ChiswickFlo · 25/04/2022 17:10

Tricky

They have a Duty of care to ALL the children there, not just yours.

If this is a new reaction from them I'd be questioning the staffing ratio? Are they short of staff? Illness etc?

New management?

Has there been a complaint from another parent? (This is usually the case in my experience..)

Superslide · 25/04/2022 17:13

Call an emergency annual review of his EHCP and tell them you think he needs 1:1 if they can't keep him and others safe with the ratios they have?

BoardLikeAMirror · 25/04/2022 17:13

No advice but Flowers for your DS. How can they market themselves as catering for disabled children, if the reality is that they exclude them when they decide their behaviour is too challenging?

Superslide · 25/04/2022 17:14

Also, ask them to put that in writing as you may need it for evidence of needs going forward.

Original poster
Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:15

ChiswickFlo · 25/04/2022 17:10

Tricky

They have a Duty of care to ALL the children there, not just yours.

If this is a new reaction from them I'd be questioning the staffing ratio? Are they short of staff? Illness etc?

New management?

Has there been a complaint from another parent? (This is usually the case in my experience..)

I agree with you that all of the children do need to be kept safe, I'm just confused as to why they suddenly can't accommodate behaviour that is very typical of the children they cater to.

No new management no, same manager for the duration and no staffing issues that I've been made aware of yet. I'll have to see what they say on the phone when they call but the long and the short of it as told to OH is that DS cannot go in if he's having a bad day because they have the smaller children to keep safe.

OP posts:
LisaSimpson73 · 25/04/2022 17:15

When they say he can't go in, do they mean they'd like you to keep him at home until his mood improves or are they asking him to leave the nursery?

I think you need to call an Emergancy review meeting too and find out what needs to happen for the nursery to feel that he and the other children are safe.

Is this a temporary thing because of poor staffing and new children starting or will it be like this from now on.

Ask lots of questions and don't be fobbed off op. Good luck.

Original poster
Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:16

Superslide · 25/04/2022 17:13

Call an emergency annual review of his EHCP and tell them you think he needs 1:1 if they can't keep him and others safe with the ratios they have?

This is a good idea, thank you. I'll say exactly that when they call.

OP posts:
Original poster
Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:17

BoardLikeAMirror · 25/04/2022 17:13

No advice but Flowers for your DS. How can they market themselves as catering for disabled children, if the reality is that they exclude them when they decide their behaviour is too challenging?

Thank you that's exactly how I feel too.

He knows his routine and if he's banned from going in tomorrow then he's going to really struggle.

OP posts:
gogohm · 25/04/2022 17:17

You need to find out if there's new or more challenging behaviour particularly aggression towards the new children? Their duty of care is to all children so if they cannot keep others safe with your dc there they need to act

lifewithsomeonespecial · 25/04/2022 17:18

No advice OP but just wanted to say my DS is 4 and is permanently excluded from pre school and he has profound autism Flowers

Original poster
Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:19

LisaSimpson73 · 25/04/2022 17:15

When they say he can't go in, do they mean they'd like you to keep him at home until his mood improves or are they asking him to leave the nursery?

I think you need to call an Emergancy review meeting too and find out what needs to happen for the nursery to feel that he and the other children are safe.

Is this a temporary thing because of poor staffing and new children starting or will it be like this from now on.

Ask lots of questions and don't be fobbed off op. Good luck.

They're saying they just can't have him in if he's having a bad day, not a case of giving me a call if he's struggling just "don't send him in"

OP posts:
toomuchlaundry · 25/04/2022 17:20

Do you know what his behaviour was today?

Original poster
Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:20

gogohm · 25/04/2022 17:17

You need to find out if there's new or more challenging behaviour particularly aggression towards the new children? Their duty of care is to all children so if they cannot keep others safe with your dc there they need to act

No there's no aggression towards the other children, he's more likely to hurt himself than somebody else. He throws things though so there's always the chance somebody will be caught in the crossfire if the situation isn't being managed properly (which it should be)

OP posts:
Original poster
Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:21

lifewithsomeonespecial · 25/04/2022 17:18

No advice OP but just wanted to say my DS is 4 and is permanently excluded from pre school and he has profound autism Flowers

I'm so sorry 😞

Do you have a plan in place for September? Will he be going to a specialist school?

OP posts:
Original poster
Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:22

toomuchlaundry · 25/04/2022 17:20

Do you know what his behaviour was today?

He has been irritable all day, not complying, throwing himself on the ground, throwing toys

OP posts:
YouHaveYourFathersBreasts · 25/04/2022 17:23

They of course have a duty of care to all of the children at nursery. But that includes your son. Excluding him in any way is not acceptable unless as a last resort when all other avenues have been explored. Doesn’t sound like they have. To be told in what sounds like an offhand way, while your child is distressed/has been distressed is unacceptable too. I would be asking what steps they are/have been taking up until this point.

MahsAllToff · 25/04/2022 17:24

Call a SEN solicitor. They can’t just tell you one day that he can’t come back. Even if you don’t employ the solicitor, they can advise you on your rights. I had to do that.

and as someone else suggested, get this all in writing. Especially the measures that they have taken to ensure that your child is adequately supported so as not to be excluded and to protect other children.

As superslide said call an emergency ehcp reciew to get him 1:1 if they can’t meet his needs any other way.

Its amazing how things can change with regards to support once you assert your rights.

YouHaveYourFathersBreasts · 25/04/2022 17:26

Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:22

He has been irritable all day, not complying, throwing himself on the ground, throwing toys

Show quote history

Is it his first day back after the Easter holidays? That usually affects my son (older but also with ASD). Even transition from the weekend of no nursery/school to actually going there can be hard going sometimes.

toomuchlaundry · 25/04/2022 17:26

I assume it is possible he hurt a child by throwing something at them. A child threw a a quite heavy wooden toy at DS when he was at nursery. Luckily it didn't hurt him, but that child forever became known by DS as the girl who threw the toy at him.

MahsAllToff · 25/04/2022 17:27

Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:17

Thank you that's exactly how I feel too.

He knows his routine and if he's banned from going in tomorrow then he's going to really struggle.

Show quote history

Call a solicitor this evening - I had to do that. I left a desperate message saying the school weren’t allowing my son back without xyz (medical issues in my situation) - the solicitor was working late and phoned me back and said they were bang out of line and could not exclude without xyz having been done. I knew this so sent him back in and there was fuck all the school could do except to make arrangements to meet his needs properly.

Original poster
Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:29

Thank you all so much

So when they call I will:

  • ask what steps they had taken to manage the situation before concluding they can't manage him
  • tell them I'm requesting an urgent EHCP review (I take it I will need to contact his EHCP case manager rather than just make the request to nursery? Im fairly new to the world of EHCP's and don't have much first hand experience yet)

Yes I agree it's not acceptable for OH to have been told in such an offhand way when there wasn't time to discuss it. They've also lost DS comforter somewhere in the building and said they didn't have time to find it at pick up so we're in for a stressful evening as it is. I'm not happy about all of this.

OP posts:
Original poster
Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:30

Thank you all so much

So when they call I will:

  • ask what steps they had taken to manage the situation before concluding they can't manage him
  • tell them I'm requesting an urgent EHCP review (I take it I will need to contact his EHCP case manager rather than just make the request to nursery? Im fairly new to the world of EHCP's and don't have much first hand experience yet)

Yes I agree it's not acceptable for OH to have been told in such an offhand way when there wasn't time to discuss it. They've also lost DS comforter somewhere in the building and said they didn't have time to find it at pick up so we're in for a stressful evening as it is. I'm not happy about all of this.

It's not his first day back after Easter no he went back last week.

Will Google the solicitor thing now

OP posts:
Original poster
Verity226 · 25/04/2022 17:30

Double posted sorry, the site glitched .

OP posts:
Bobbajobs · 25/04/2022 17:35

Has hubby definitely relayed this correctly? (my husband often misinterprets messages from nursery when he's passing the message to me, especially when it's a stressful pick up!) Or maybe an inexperienced member of staff making an off the cuff remark?
I would expect them to present you with a report/case/examples of extreme behaviour for example, if there was good grounds for him to not come in or they felt he was a danger to other children. Definitely call for a meeting with them, it's not a conversation to be held at the door at pick up in any case.

caringcarer · 25/04/2022 17:37

Has his behaviour got worse at nursery recently? Most likely another parent has complained they don't feel their child is safe. Has he bitten or hit another child recently?