To be concerned about school trip

[HolidayWorry]

I've googled frantically but can't find guidelines for school residential trips.

My kid is meant to going on a school residential trip abroad for a week skiing, but there will be only one (female) teacher in the house with them in the evening. 8 girls between 12-16.

Surely that is a huge safeguarding concern?

Am I being unreasonable?

Are there other male staff with the male students? If so one female member of staff is fine, they aren't young.

Yeah my kid is old enough, I have absolutely no worries about her.

And I get what you're saying about a teacher being alone with kids. But they're not alone are they, and if they speak to one alone after class, I'm sure they will keep the door open.

But these are girls alone overnight with only 1 adult, as one PP mentioned what if one of the girls get ill? Or the teacher gets ill?

I'm not suggesting anything untoward but I'm not sure I'd want to be the only adult alone in a house with them.

But obviously it's just me, Mumsnet jury has almost 100% agreed I am being unreadable.

Is there only one adult for the whole trip?

That would bother me as a parent and school staff because it would be very tricky if not impossible to deal with emergency.
Several children being ill, or someone getting injured and needing hospital care, or the teacher being ill herself.

But if you're only talking about one member of staff for night time supervision , and other members if staff are around/available then that's fine.

You're pretending to not know what the OP means when you know full well

At primary, we have to meet adult to child ratios plus one more in case of accident or emergency. If one child has to be rushed to hospital, are all the others going along as well?! Went on a day trip where that did happen, and once the extra adult had gone I felt very uncomfortable with just having the adult to child ratio and noone else, in case anything else happened.

Is there another adult with DBS clearance (but not a member of staff) going as well? E.g. a parent, volunteer, governor? That's the only way I could see a trip going ahead in the way you suggest - it simply wouldn't get approval otherwise, surely? Again, definitely not at primary level.

But is it just one teacher in that particular house? Or one teacher in total?

Op, can you clarify the situation a bit more please? Are there other teachers and students on the trip but just sleeping in different buildings at night? The ratio is legal but of course if there was an emergency and the teacher or a student became ill then on a residential trip I'd want another member of staff near enough to be able to take over if needed.

If there are other staff in the house next door for example then I'd say it's fine.

As for your concern that one member of staff alone in the house is opening themselves up to safeguarding accusations, well all teachers that take students on residential trips take that additional risk regardless of how many staff there are so I'd imagine the teacher is always aware of when they are putting themselves at risk and will take precautions as such.

To be honest as a teacher on a residential with teens I am more worried about teenagers sneaking out, smoking, sneaking into the boys rooms, sneaking booze onto the trip, disturbing other hotel guests, sneaking into the rooms of students from other schools at the same accommodation etc. I rarely get much sleep and usually spend till at least 2 am sat on a chair in the corridor making sure they all settle down and stay in their rooms. 8 girls in a self contained unit sound much easier and safer to manage.

I didn't. I, too, thought the OP meant 'ill in the night' not 'allegations of snorting coke off the bare midriff of one of her charges'.

But these are girls alone overnight with only 1 adult, as one PP mentioned what if one of the girls get ill? Or the teacher gets ill?

You need to get a copy of the risk assessment, but I suspect there are other adults around - whether they are with other pupils, or local staff members In any event I would expect 16 year olds to be able to cope overnight.

Back in the dark ages when I was in a boarding school, I spent a year in a separate building away from the main school. There were 14 of us and only one adult sleeping there overnight. Somehow we all survived.

Thanks again all that replied. Yes there are other teachers during the day. It's just the evening and night I was concerned about.

But as has been pointed out I'm being unreasonable. So thank you mumsnet jury!

@HolidayWorry

OP my DD went away on a ski trip for school when she was about 14, there was about 10 girls in her chalet and there was one teacher. I would say its fairly standard. Unfourtantely the stretched education system cannot provide much more.

@HolidayWorry - I don't think you are BU. I think the ratio is fine, but it's the issue with there only being one teacher/adult - what happens if one of the pupils got taken ill in the night? The rest are left alone? The child goes on their own to hospital? Are there other adults/teachers who would cover if one of the children got ill - surely there's not just one adult for the whole trip? What happens if the teacher got sick?! The ratio is not the issue but you need a minimum of two sober adults to adequately manage risk imo (I was a school governor for 5 yrs+).

Other teachers are on the trip which means other teachers will be there to help in an unlikely emergency during the night.

The ratio of 1:8 for nursery age children is for within the nursery setting. The ratio is much lower for a trip out and about. Government guidance (“a general guide”) is 1:6 for Years 1-3, 1:10-15 for Years 4-6 and 1:15-20 beyond. So for early years, no specific guidance but accepted to be fewer than 1:6. If taking early years on a trip I would prefer a ratio of 1:2 (one adult hand for each child to hold), this is including parent volunteers. Or 1:3 would also be ok

OP, the teaching union NEU advises that regardless of ratios, there should always be a minimum of 2 members of staff on a trip, whether it be a day trip or residential. This is for reasons you and others have mentioned such as the teacher being called away, a pupil falling ill or having an accident and needing accompanying to hospital and for safeguarding reasons.

But if it's a ski trip, surely the other teachers you mention will still be there overnight, just in separate (presumably male) accommodation?

They're hardly going to be flying home each night and coming back in the morning

My dd has just come back, around 25 girls - two teachers. Totally fine due to their older age.

Just be glad she’s going at all - both mine missed both their ski trips due to covid - we don’t ski as a family and I was planning on them experiencing it with their friends via school. So in your shoes I would be flipping grateful not not nit picking the presumably thought through sleeping arrangements 🙄

I imagine the teacher will safeguard herself by making sure that she is not alone inappropriately with a single student. Teachers are alone with students all the time in their day-to-day work, but tend to avoid being on their own with one student with the door shut.

How many male staff are going? If a female student is so ill that they need to go to hospital or something like that, I assume it would be possible for the female teacher to request that one of the male teachers accompanies them while she stays behind to look after the other girls, hospitals being public places and so minimal safeguarding risk. Of course, this is slightly more difficult if there's only one male teacher - most school trips seem to have a minimum of 3 staff with at least one male/female teacher for a mixed sex groups, depending on the ratios. If there were more staff, it would push up the cost of the trip.

Thanks @MarianosOnHisWay

OP, the teaching union NEU advises that regardless of ratios, there should always be a minimum of 2 members of staff on a trip, whether it be a day trip or residential. This is for reasons you and others have mentioned such as the teacher being called away, a pupil falling ill or having an accident and needing accompanying to hospital and for safeguarding reasons.

That makes me feel not so mad!!

I'm loving the posters getting wound up about the ski trip! Especially the one that said I should be grateful they are going at all.

C'mon some mumsnet users have a bit of commons sense! All the details have been changed!

But a genuine thanks to all who posted and I agree I am being unreasonable even if the NEU doesn't ;)

What I haven't seen you clarify OP (& forgive me if I have missed it) is whether there is only 1 teacher on the whole trip, or whether eg there are 2 teachers and 16 pupils.
The guidance you quoted above is for a whole trip not sleeping arrangements in houses / cabins.

Most teachers do take steps to manage proper 1-1 situations very carefully (leave door open if possible, or have a glass panel in the door at the very least, try to avoid meeting students after 4pm in deserted parts of the school etc)

But teachers are by themselves with a group of kids all the time, like every single lesson!

FWIW it's not even mandatory to have one male one female member of staff on a residential, although it's strongly advised. There definitely need to be two members of staff (for when one member of needs to accompany a student to hospital etc) but in that event, then the remaining member of staff would have to cope short term. I would be more worried that kids could be left unattended in a house over night, than that they would, in an emergency, be attended by a member of staff of the opposite sex. Are the boys and girls literally in different houses?

you are taking the NEU guidance wrongly - it will apply to the whole trip not a single accomdation. as long as there are several teachers on the trip then there isnt an issue.

Teenagers are also perfectly capable of looking after themselves in an emergency! im sure if the teacher had to accompany someone to hospital the other adults on the trip would be able to pop in and check on them.
DD is 13 and could be trusted on her own let along in a group. She baby sat an 11 year old the other day, cooked him tea and cleared up.

I am genuinely jealous yes. Dd1 2020 school ski trip obviously cancelled dd2 Feb 2022 trip was also cancelled at the last minute.

They were both really really looking forward to the trips all their pals were going and it’s not something we ever do as a family. So to read your moaning made me 🙄🙄.

Given that schools arrange school trips supervised by teachers all the time, I'm sure they've considered all these things. They're not just winging it.

some teenagers are perfectly capable of looking after themselves......! Completing a comprehensive risk assessment as a teacher is different from assessing risks with your own children.