To think school uniform is a bunch of crap?

[Ahurricaneofjacarandas]

So to be clear, I don't think the principle of uniform itself is crap. However why are we allowing our primary aged kids especially to spend the majority of their childhood in such restrictive clothing?! It's almost always restrictive trousers/dresses at least and some in my area even proper shirts and ties. We have evidence in the importance of learning by moving in this age group. Most kids this age have a degree of sensory processing immaturity. Many even have spd and this is arguably discriminating against these kids. I do understand the importance of uniform and learning to adhere to uniform standards but can anyone give me a reason why the uniform isn't just a simple pair of leggings/joggers and a tshirt and hoodie? Maybe I've overlooked something but it seems to me it's entirely for the benefit of the school and their pockets not the children.. why do we accept this?

Those who don't have a problem generally don't have an income issue buying clothes!

We we’re on a low income when DS was at primary. Not having a uniform, meant I didn’t have to buy anything when he started school as he still had enough clothes to fit him. I can’t see how having to buy extra clothes can be any cheaper. You still have to have enough other clothes for the school holidays - unless you are forever washing or kids sometimes have to wear uniform during the holidays.

The complaint that comfortable trousers like leggings and joggers "normalises obesity" is so bloody Mumsnet 🙄

At one school I worked at, I costed the uniform and it represented all but £3.25 of the child benefit payable for a child all year, and more than that if they were over 5'5", had a larger bust than 34 or took more than a size 4 shoe. It's ridiculous that clothing of such poor quality that it can never be truly comfortable is compulsory and as a result, so expensive.

A universal uniform of sweatshirt/hoody (yes, they will be more expensive due to being badged), pique/polo shirts and trackies or cargoes would be far more sensible and affordable for all ages, thus enabling the child benefit to spent on other things than increasing the profits of uniform suppliers.

There's plenty of time post 18 to ruin one's feet with too tight shoes and more restrictive or expensive clothing. They'd still be confirming to a rule in wearing those things, they'd be warm in winter, covered (and less likely to get burned or overheated) in summer, it actually matches a lot of workwear and they'd be used to wearing clothes that were actually appropriate for the task in hand. Which as a kid, is sitting, moving around and depending upon age, dashing about in the playground.

I agree! Nothing wrong with having a school uniform but could definitely be way less restrictive (especially for primary aged children) and less expensive!

As you say it’s the type of uniform, shirts on primary aged children is stupid as fuck. Polo shirts and smart trousers or skirts look good and allow for movement.

There was a secondary school near us that has long had a no school uniform policy. This recently changed as all the children voted that they wanted one.

I think telling someone what exactly they need to wear is really bad. People should be wearing what they feel they are comfortable in. There is no need for the children to look the same.

Uniforms can be crap. So can dress codes and other non-uniform options.

I've no strong opinion one way or the other. I don't think you need a uniform to learn how to dress for work or to get into a work mindset. Personally, as things have shifted, I more associate that suit look with kids/junior workers than professions. I see a similar amount of rebellion/pushing the envelope in attire in my local area between schools with uniforms and those without. It's hard to judge about the bullying aspect as there are a lot of factors in that. Same for poverty - I know schools where they get a lot of their uniform pieces donated in and then hand them out as needed along with shoe vouchers. Getting rid of uniforms might help some, but I think for others it might be more of an expense.

I think there are ways to make clothes less restrictive and it's great when parents push for more inclusive, comfortable clothes options, though leggings and joggers are not automatically the solution there. I know I find leggings restrictive and find them more uncomfortable as days go on so only wear them as an underlayer when it's cold and I wouldn't feel comfortable sending my teen DDs to school in them, nor any of my kids in all but the darkest of joggers.

Surely having the name of the school emblazoned on uniform is a safeguarding issue anyway ? I might not want members of the public knowing which school my dd attends !

I've mixed feelings on it. It can be useful if there is an incident in public to be able to at least contact the school or for camera footage to be passed to the school and I know even schools without uniforms may have lanyards to make it easier at a glance to tell who should be on sight or sometimes PE shirts when PE is taking place off site to make it easier to keep an eye on students, but you're right that sometimes it can be a safeguarding issue for someone to know what school a child attends.

My 6 year old will only wear pinnies/skirts/summer dresses and doesn't find them the least bit restrictive.
Our school allows leggings, but I wish they wouldn't, they look so scruffy, especially when they're obviously a size or two too small!

I agree with you. I've never understood why primary uniform has to be those awful scratchy polo shirts with teflony trousers or skirts. At least there does seem a bit of leeway in most schools and, especially with girls, you can get lycra skirts or trousers and t shirt material polos. But I do agree it should be bright coloured t shirts/jumpers and leggings or joggers. Really any type of bottoms should be allowed.

I really disagree with school uniform. Its a completely unnecessary expense for low income families, as you say, you can't dress kids for the weather so easily, and its just pointless. Really, really pointless.

@Wutipo I am curious as to what style of uniform the children at that secondary chose? Did they go for the blazer/tie/kilt skirt combo or polo/hoodies style?
Is wonder if the novelty of it has worn off yet and they are fed up with being told off because their grey socks are the wrong shade of grey or whatever.
Did the parents get a vote I wonder? As they are the ones having to pay for it.

It's a fine line between the implementation of rules and pettiness. I recall an issue at a school near us with a strict uniform code (and it was an unutterably vile uniform of polyester blazer and off grey roll/polo top) was petty beyond belief.

In the last week of the summer term the shoes of a deprived family lost one of their soles. The family asked if the boy could attend in trainers for the last week. The school refused, and would have let the boy miss a week of school over it. I understand one of the local clergy bought the lad a pair of shoes and complained to the diocesan board of education.

I am quite passionately opposed to school uniform. I find it depressing that we are still, in 2022, factory farming children instead of educating them, and that conformity and obedience are still prized above all other attributes in our schools.

I would be in favour of a dress code for schoolchildren, which would ensure that clothes were practical, comfortable and durable - plain joggers/leggings/trousers, Tshirts, hoodies, sweaters etc would all be fine. Comfortable, practical shoes that don't restrict children's activity. Much more sensible, takes a lot of the pettiness and resentment out of the situation, and doesn't rob developing human beings of their personhood.

It's just snobbery I think. Not uniform in principle, a sense of belonging and nobody (theoretically) having the piss taken out of them for their shabby or unfashionable clothes is important.

But £50 or so for a blazer? £15 for a tie? Madness. And you're right, it's always uncomfy.

Why they can't have joggers, T-shirt and a jumper is beyond me. Why they get put in isolation if they're wearing nail varnish or have the wrong sort of haircut is also beyond me! As if you can't fucking learn because someone in the class has a streak of purple manic panic or a couple of tramlines! As if it's a massive violation to have a pair of trainers on or the wrong colour of socks visible. It's not prison.

I think primary uniform is generally ok. Prefer it that both the school I teach in and my DC's school have stuck with wearing PE kit to school on PE days.

Secondary school uniform is ridiculous Nd generally enforces much stricter requirements than even the staff have to wear. My DC's school insists on ankle length skirts for the girls which is not a requirement in any workplace that I know of.

I strongly support a strict and smart uniform. Personally, I hate polo shirts etc as uniform items- to me these are casual wear and not suitable for a work environment (which is what a school is). Smart uniform contributes to a professional environment and work ethic.

Why? What is the reasoning behind this.

Lots of pp very confidently saying it stops fashion shows etc etc (leveller, concentrate, professional). I live in a country with no school uniform. It doesn't stop them achieving good results. It doesn't confuse or worry them when they get jobs that require uniforms. Professional people who work at companies with strict dress codes aren't blindsided by this. Society isn't collapsing.

I was at a school with a very strict uniform policy but everyone knew who had money, who were bitchy, who were kind etc. The uniform was just an annoyance to everyone.. (my primary in the 70s had optional uniform, i guess about 75% of us wore it, we had a very high number of us going to grammar schools).

An interesting correlation is that the French who have no uniform are significantly better turned out as adults than the British.

Uniform should just have genetic guidance and be cheap, comfortable and not prescriptive.

To insist on strict uniform, ties etc, when in the real working world there is such a move towards informal dressing for adults, is crazy.

generic guidance, sorry!

Smart uniform contributes to a professional environment and work ethic.

and yet schools in France, Spain and other places that don’t dress children in mini-adult uniforms manage just fine with their environment and work ethic

Interesting. Both dh and I have very ‘formal’ professional jobs . Neither of us wear suits regularly in the office anymore. Dh was always a fan of the suit and double cuffed shirt but even he is more likely to be in open necked shirt mode now . I am more likely to be in dress, or smart trousers and frequently white/ neutral trainers .

no one wears synthetic shiney suits and polyester shirts in the office environment

And for the record one of the things that I find most depressing about young trainees now is their frequent need to be constantly needing to be told what to do. This comes from the fact that schools do not encourage them to us their own judgement . I expect a 16 year old to know when their body is too hot and to take their jacket off , but schools hardly let them breathe without rules. So they second guess themselves constantly. We need to reduce these petty rules and encourage young people to make decisions .

My child attends a school that doesn’t require a uniform. I see the year 6-8 students coming out of that school every day in an assortment of practical, comfortable clothing. The only really inappropriate thing is that they all refuse to wear winter coats for some reason. It’s a very wealthy school, but most of the kids are just wearing clothing from the same affordable shops. The money is spent on high end backpacks and Cell phones, not shirts and leggings.

My daughter loved her school uniform and now in sixth form misses it. No need to think about what to wear, no judgement, no trying to figure out what's in or out, no expectations etc. Movement not an issue - the skirts were pleated. And I certainly didn't see my son not being able to kick around a football during break either.
I grew up with no uniform. Can't say it made me move any more.