Homework club for a Year 4, AIBU to say no?

[SickofHomework]

DD is currently Year 3 (7 almost 8 years old). We’re in a 3-tier system so she has 1 more year left after she finishes Year 3 of Primary/First School before Middle School (midlands before anyone asks).

DD has some SN and because of that I had to get rid of her tablet and laptop. She was just too attached to them, refused to come off or use them just for homework, tried to take it to bed with her (never managed it) and would refuse to do anything else at all until I promised her tablet time.

When I got rid (when she was in Year 2) I told school she would need paper copies of any homework, I told them I was happy to pay for printing costs, or if they’d prefer, they could email it to me and I’d use the printer at work (with permission). They refused, told me I needed to give the tablet back as they use apps only for homework. I have repeatedly explained why I got rid of the tablet (I kept the laptop and occasionally use it although I have a work laptop if I need to work), and I am sticking with that decision as when DD goes round to friends or family she asks if they have a tablet and will sit on that for the whole time, we’re there rather than play with family and it’s a battle to get her off it. School told me she needs to learn to self-regulate it but she just won’t, she’d sit all day and do nothing else.

I have asked both the teachers since I got rid of the tablet and mentioned it to the SENCo all of whom made the right noises and said they’d sort it then came back to me and said it’s apps onluy.

(For context her SN is dyslexia, Developmental Co-ordination Disorder/Dyspraxia and an eye condition – tablet is not good for her eye condition either).

School is now saying that as she’s done no homework this year and got 0/0 on every spelling test (yep even spelling practice is an app) that when she gets to Year 4, she’ll have to go to homework club on 2 nights a week, these will be the 2 nights her teacher runs the club and she will just be kept back and not released to me. They’ve said the children will be given the school ipads to work on their homework.

DD does activities on some nights, which she loves. She also hates school so keeping her there longer may tip her over the edge, we already get violent meltdowns. I also try and make appointments for her eye condition after school but they aren’t on a set night as I will go to whichever clinic her consultant is at (he runs it at 1 local hospital but also runs clinics in the 2 next counties along and will just fit patients in wherever there’s a gap rather than say we must be seen at X hospital).

AIBU to say no they can’t keep her as I’ve repeatedly asked for paper copies of the homework? They’ve told me she’ll fail the year (whatever that means) if she doesn’t do homework and she will “not be prepared for Year 5 and the independence needed”.

AIBU?

They can’t insist she stays in school or does homework at all in primary. She can’t fail a year either, they are being discriminatory in their practices imo. I say this as a teacher who regularly has children who don’t do any homework. There is lots of evidence to show that homework at this age does not support better outcomes for children. Could you put your concerns in writing to the Governors?

Does she have an EHCP? What does it say? Your request sounds totally valid to me.

YANBU - legally, I don’t think they can just keep her at school and not let her out when you go to get her after school hours. They need your permission for her to attend homework club.

I don’t really have any experience on how best to deal with it but I’m sure someone will come along soon!

I do personally think it’s ridiculous having everything on apps these days for schools though, what about people who can’t afford them? Do the school provide them? The rising costs of electric to charge etc.

Hopefully you can get it sorted OP but definitely not unreasonable to refuse homework club and want paper copies of work

The only thing I think you are wrong on is the spellings. You could use the app to collect the spellings for that week and practise on paper to try and boost her scores.
The rest is fine. You haven't said you wont do it, just that the format doesn't work (what would happen if your phone was the only internet accessible device you had? Woukd they be expecting you to use that for homework?).
That said, setting app homework is easy for the teacher - once the right section us found, click and send, and all the marking is done. I can see ut geing difficult to find an equivalent worksheet.

They can't withhold her from you, so you can refuse the club. However is there not some compromise you can make with the homework? If you have a laptop, can you log on and get the homework for her? Print or write out the spellings from there for example. Or go to a local library to do homework so it is separate from home.

Whilst I understand your concern about the tablet use, I can see the school's point of view too. Emailing it separately is another chunk of work for them and they are worried about her progress. Presumably spellings etc are particularly hard for her, so she really needs the practise.

They can't keep her in school for that. You can insist that she is released to you.

Detentions are legal as a consequence of unacceptable behaviour - it is not her behaviour, it is your decision, so they wouldn't be punishing her for something she has refused to do. Detentions also have to take into account a child's SEND, which they aren't doing.

To be lawful, the punishment (including detentions) must satisfy the following three conditions: 1) The decision to punish a pupil must be made by a paid member of school staff or a member of staff authorised by the headteacher; 2) The decision to punish the pupil and the punishment itself must be made on the school premises or while the pupil is under the charge of the member of staff; and 3) It must not breach any other legislation (for example in respect of disability, special educational needs, race and other equalities and human rights) and it must be reasonable in all the circumstances.

There should be a Governor with responsibility for SEND. The details should be on the school website/if not, there will be a contact for the Clerk to the Governors who would be able to forward details to the Chair/SEND Governor - or you can instigate the complaints policy (which should also be on the website), which will likely have two or more steps to follow.

Whatever way you choose to act, no, they cannot force her to be in detention (which is what this 'club' represents to her, as they cannot force her to join a club after school, either) as a result of your decisions in the light of their failure to work with you to address her needs.

They have a legal obligation to make reasonable adjustments for her SEN, and in this case that clearly means providing paper copies of the homework and spelling tests. If that's a ballache for them, it's their own fault for having such a preposterous and lazy policy in the first place, delivering all the learning via apps
If it was my dc (speaking from long, bitter experience) I would write a letter to the Head, ccing the Senco and the Chair of Governors. I would ask for a face to face meeting to discuss the school's failure to provide access to the full curriculum for a child with a diagnosed SEN. Write notes (do your homework ) so that you are organised and they can't just railroad you in the meeting. Outline the reasons for your requests for learning that isn't delivered via an app and ask them what plan they are going to put in place to ensure that your daughter isn't disadvantaged.

This is their failure, not yours and certainly not your daughter's. Punishing her for not doing homework they are effectively denying her access to is unacceptable. If there isn't a satisfactory resolution after a face to face meeting, I would withdraw my child temporarily and make a formal complaint to Ofsted and the LA.

I totally get where you're coming from as I have a child with SN who also turns into a tablet zombie if he has free access to one.

But just to let you know you can get apps now that allow children a certain amount of tablet time and then locks it so they can't access it when you don't want them too. I have one called family link. So you could allow 30 minutes access so your DC can do their homework and then it would lock.

However, having done this for my 8 year old, he will still cry when the tablet locks and pester me for more time, so it's whether you can put your with that!!

You’ve had good advice herr, I just want to add well done tmfor standing your ground. Tablets are addictive and clearly not helpful for your child. I’m shocked they’re ignoring your requests, it looks like discrimination to me.

good luck xx

So for the spellings, which they have awarded her 0/0 for, do you get the words on paper each week and learn them on paper with her?

Could you get the tablet and keep it in a locked box when you are at home?

It s a behaviour issue
Set guided access on the tablet so it will only do the school app.

In school and beyond she will use technology do get behaviour advice

So the spellings come up on an app one at a time and they have to be typed in it then sends the results to the teacher, at the end of each half term the 25-30 spellings for that half term are tested and the kids have to write them down, been told if a certain amount of children are struggling with one spelling then it's worked into the lessons.

Similarly with Maths concepts, there's no way for me to print from the app.

Although I understand your points from the schools pov you’re not saying she can’t use an iPad/screen you’re saying she shouldn’t.

A discussion and documentation from her eye specialist may tip the balance but be aware there is a lot of equipment out there to enable screen use because it’s considered so important for accessibility in many areas. As an aside, are any of the apps compatible with software used for those with sight loss? I’m wondering if it would be possible for her to use the apps in this way so the screen could be blocked and she’s not interacting directly with a device?

On the face of it, homework club access to screens seems an ideal first line solution to try in terms of controlling her access and usage but like you I would also be very reluctant if that meant giving up activities my child really enjoyed and benefitted from. Ultimately though, school work has to take priority.

How receptive to the conversation do you think your dd would be? I’d be interested to know her thoughts and if she had any possible solutions to get her homework completed.

A homework policy like that would be totally unworkable in many inner city schools (many pupils having limited access to wifi and technology) it’s clearly discriminatory from a socio-economic as well as an SEN perspective.

The school have absolutely no grounds to refuse to release your DD to you on this basis. If that is what they are suggesting I would be tempted to inform them your DD will be home educating on those days and not take her in in the first place (but I am a stubborn bint!)

YANBU, I would not allow them to keep her back (unless you have tried to get her to just do the homework on the tablet and she has refused/had a meltdown etc). Could you use the tablet as an incentive? Sit with her while she completes her homework then she can have 30 minutes to play or whatever. Set a declining timer so the transition to switch off isnt a shock for her. personally if I had tried that and hadn’t worked then I probably would say that she has to stay behind one day a week to do the homework at school. In my experience the homework increases for yr 5/6 and they do need to be prepared for that (I do not agree with homework by the way and have not ever forced my DD to do hers but the school have never mentioned it).

does annoy me that schools insist on using apps now though. My children do not have access to a tablet and I can’t afford to buy one so they were constantly asked at to play X app at home until I spoke to her teacher personally and told her we do not have a tablet and I can’t afford to buy one so unless they’re willing to loan us one please stop singling my children out.

Let them try it and be responsible for the meltdown that ensues when they try to seperate her from the tablet at the end? Bonus points if she slings it like a certain friend's son they were more flexible after that episode

In your position I would be rubbing my hands with glee at the letter I would be sending to:
the headteacher
chair of governors
head of the la
Ofsted

they have not made it accessible for a pupiL with both SEN and disability I would be quoting the sEN code of conduct at them
as well as their own policies.

have you got your requests for paper copies ? In writing ?

they can not enforce homework and neither can they keep a child back a year.

apps is incredibly lazy as there is no work involved for the the teacher and no marking and no support from the teacher.
they could of given you all spellings at the start of the year and tested her every half term.

the fact your daughter has Sen and potentially addictive and behaviour problems associated with the tablet and then the eye sight issue makes it doubly important she has an alternative.

personally I would be getting in touch with some local
fb Sen support group and asking for support in writing letters and meetings. I would be asking for a copy of the schools complaints policy and copying it to the local mp
etc

I didn’t mean rubbing my hands in glee that your daughter is struggling but more as in they have well
snd truly shot themselves in their feet with an ak47 rather than make adjustments for an sen child

What do they do for parents who don't have the tech at home?
They can't insist she stays for homework club. No way. Tell them a firm "no".
For the spellings I would go into the app and write them down and get her to practice that way.
Maybe get some fun workbooks for Maths and English (The Works sell some fairly cheap) and her homework can be she does 15 minutes of the book.
Do you know what Middle School she will be going to (is it an automatic move up?). You could ask to talk to their senco about how they do homework and your daughters issues so if the Year 4 teacher comes up with the "she needs to do this to be ready for middle school" you can say you have already discussed it with them.

I have a DD13 with SN. ADHD and ASD.

When she was your DDs age i started Kumon with her. She did it until the end of year 6. Do you feel like your DD would benefit from that? That could be the compromise with school if they think she's behind but you want to stick to a paper based/home system.

When my daughter had completed her daily papers (about 20 mins in to total) she got tablet time.

Her SN are very different though, the tablet enables her to decompress after school and it's always worked really well.

It's automatic in the sense that most DC from this first school and two others go to X Middle School but I still have to apply through the usual admissions process so it's not 100% guarenteed.

She doesn't have an EHCP yet, in the process of getting one but no support from school for that either, told that she won't get one as she behaves herself and all the support she gets in school would be expected.

Yes I've emailed the teachers involved and also got it in writing on her support plan that she needs physical copies of any homework.

Thank you everyone some really useful points of view here, and there are some things I can use to help talk to school and even compromise on with them.

How would they cope with a Plymouth Brethren family, who shun all I.T. I wonder? Contact the governor's about your request for printed copies of hw.

I think it depends on whether this is really about her eye condition or really about her autism.

I totally agree that DC do not all self regulate and may need a lot of structure and limits. My own autistic DC has a lot of screen limits. Of course YANBU to demand they do not keep her back in school to do homework.

However putting aside the eye thing for a sec, after 2 years of a total ban I would try introducing a little. Maybe 30-60 mins, some days per week, on a tablet to do homework. You've given her plenty of time to detox. Homework is hard for a lot of autistic kids and having it on an app can really remove a lot of barriers, especially for a DC who really loves tablets. She might not have been able to cope with rationed time 2 years ago but maybe she will now. Also you have finite time left before her friends start getting phones and you can no longer police her access all the time.

It is your choice on screens and YANBU to ask for paper copies. I'm really not a huge advocate of screens for DC, but I can see how much my own DC has been helped by having some access in a very managed way, after previously had a complete ban.

The eye condition complicates things. Is it really so bad for her to have an hour 3 times a week? If so that's a different situation. Also think about how looking at the whiteboard and using school computers/tablets in class time might also be affecting her - does she need paper copies for these too?