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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think that people need to stop suggesting marriage is just a piece of paper

106 replies

afizzysweet · 21/04/2022 16:16

if they're in a relationship with joint outgoings and children?

I got married when I was young and married 'for love' and not for any other reason, because I was ignorant to the other reasons. As I've got older, I've realised that with marriage brings a lot of security for women.
Typically when you have children, it is a woman's career and ability to earn money that is impacted rather than a man's. Doesn't have to be, but usually is.

I know many women that have 2 or 3 children with their DP. They want to get married but DPs are saying "we need the prioritise the money for xxxx instead" or just sort of tell them that it's not a priority for other reasons and that marriage is only a piece of paper. These women have had years of working part time because of providing childcare, dropping their career progression for several years because it's not really possible for them with children. In the event of them splitting up they aren't entitled to as much.

I think they've been talked in to an idea that marriage is just a part of the patriarchy by their DPs so don't want to bother now. If that is your feeling and at your core do not want to get married, absolutely fine, but put something else in place so that should yourself and your partner split up, you've got some security and won't be left up a creek without a paddle, and you get your fair share of things - taking in to account things like staying at home to look after the kids whilst your partner has been out furthering his career for years.

AIBU to think this? I have spoken to some of my friends about this when they bring it up, especially a couple whose DPs manage all of their money and not in joint accounts (which I find really worrying). At the end of the day it's their life, but am I the only one who finds this quite bad?

OP posts:

SemperIdem · 21/04/2022 16:19

It irritates me too. It is not just a “piece of paper” - it is a legal contract that offers protections and benefits merely cohabiting does not.

Graphista · 21/04/2022 16:24

as I always say on threads on this topic it’s not just in the event of a split it’s an issue it’s also if the higher/only earner becomes incapacitated or even dies.

I’ve seen a relative deal with such a situation and it was a total shit show!

i think the main problem is that we (as a population) aren’t taught about the clear differences between living together and marriage in the uk

uk laws vary by internal country but generally speaking on this they are very similar. If you’re not married you’re simply much less protected

the waters are muddied by the uk govt treating couples “as if they were married” when it suits them to do so! Mainly benefits claims BUT when it doesn’t suit them eg inheritance tax, bereavement payouts they don’t!

they have it all ways

as for patriarchy being an argument against marriage, as you say op the majority of the time it is women - and by extension children - that are most disadvantaged by a lack of marital contract. Because that is what it is a contract

and as you rightly say it’s not just a piece of paper it’s an important piece of legislation.

Whatsthestoryboringglory · 21/04/2022 16:24

I’m firmly in the cohabiting camp, don’t want or need to get married and DP and I have things in place in case of problems; joint ownership of assets and wills.

having said that, if I had kids and had to take time out of my career or become a SAHP, I would absolutely insist on marriage. I’ve seen too many people left financially ruined by a partner who refused to marry and left them with no job, no savings and no house with kids to look after.

Suprima · 21/04/2022 16:26

YANBU- but it’s a sensitive subject as many women have settled for and had children with men who don’t want to marry them and aren’t really that into them.

Men can opt out of parenthood completely, and do so all the time- so having children isn’t really a huge commitment to someone. Women tend to pay 50/50 for the running of the home and the mortgage these days too. It’s no wonder men set home with women who they like having sex with, will have their babies for them and split the bills with them- usually for the woman to do 90% of the housework as well.

Original poster

afizzysweet · 21/04/2022 16:41

Men can opt out of parenthood completely, and do so all the time- so having children isn’t really a huge commitment to someone.

The children themselves might not be (sadly) but women who stay at home for several years raising the kids while the dads go out and get promotions, only to swan off later on, are screwed.

Yes this is true!

I’m firmly in the cohabiting camp, don’t want or need to get married and DP and I have things in place in case of problems; joint ownership of assets and wills.

This is sensible - so many people don't. I know one person who isn't married and have nothing in place, and all of their assets and finances are in her DPs name!

OP posts:

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 21/04/2022 16:42

YABU. My friend's partner died when they had 3 kids age 8 and under. Because the weren't married his parents (as official next of kin) organised his funeral in his home country following religious beliefs he no longer held and my friend had no say. An awful time for her anyway was made even worse.

Neverreturntoathread · 21/04/2022 16:43

Yanbu. An arrest warrant is just a piece of paper. A house purchase contract is just a piece of paper. A will is just a piece of paper.

The legal side of marriage was created to protect women and children (and property). I always find it depressing when a woman boasts that she’s too cool for marriage, or has kids without marriage then is shocked how few legal protections she has when he leaves.

Ugh.

OctopusSay · 21/04/2022 16:45

It seems to me that there are lots of advantages for a low earning woman, not so many for the higher earner. Which we expected men to be fine with for years, but now women are sometimes that person....it doesn't actually make financial sense for a financially independent woman to marry, children not.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 21/04/2022 16:45

Sorry my reply should have YANBU - I'm the contents made that clear.

toastofthetown · 21/04/2022 16:48

I don’t get it either. Marriage is a contract. It gives rights and responsibilities. That doesn’t mean people should get married if they don’t want to, but it’s certainly not the equivalent of A💘B scrawled on a notebook. The deeds to my house, car insurance and power of attorney for my parents are also pieces of paper, but as with marriage they all mean something.

Mumdiva99 · 21/04/2022 16:53

It sort of is jist a piece of paper. My (now DH) made the commitment to love and support each other before we bought kids into the world. Forget the legal obligations from that point on we were tied with moral obligations. So for us it was just a piece of paper.

Yes it does mean now that when one of us passes then it is useful we are married. But it changes nothing between us and how we act. I think that's what a lot of people mean when they refer to it as such.

(A useless Fecker - M or F - will still be useless whether married or not).

Moochio · 21/04/2022 16:55

It's a very important piece of paper

OctopusSay · 21/04/2022 16:55

(A useless Fecker - M or F - will still be useless whether married or not).

Yes, but his wife is less likely to be left destitute after giving up work for his kids

LittleBearPad · 21/04/2022 16:59

Mumdiva99 · 21/04/2022 16:53

(A useless Fecker - M or F - will still be useless whether married or not).

The moral obligations would mean diddly squat if he were to leave you.

The marriage certificate is going to be the contract that matters.

Bedsheets4knickers · 21/04/2022 16:59

@SemperIdem

It irritates me too. It is not just a “piece of paper” - it is a legal contract that offers protections and benefits merely cohabiting does not.

We are not married but our life insurance policy's are to benefit each other . If the unthinkable happened we have each other covered with or without a marriage contract .

meditrina · 21/04/2022 17:06

I think anyone who says 'it's just a piece of paper' gets pretty short shrift on MN

Its a piece of paper with meaning, like a will, or a share certificate, or property deeds, or a £10 note

AnneLovesGilbert · 21/04/2022 17:06

I had a conversation with a friend a while ago, they’ve been together 20 years, engaged 6, two kids, she works pt. She said they probably won’t bother getting married now, there’s no point, she said, as “we’re common law married anyway”. I said that’s not a thing in England and she was shocked.

AnneLovesGilbert · 21/04/2022 17:07

Bedsheets4knickers · 21/04/2022 16:59

@SemperIdem

It irritates me too. It is not just a “piece of paper” - it is a legal contract that offers protections and benefits merely cohabiting does not.

We are not married but our life insurance policy's are to benefit each other . If the unthinkable happened we have each other covered with or without a marriage contract .

Not worried about inheritance tax?

gogohm · 21/04/2022 17:10

Marriage is a contract, nothing more nothing less, it doesn't magically make relationships different. We need to choose our partners wisely and never think they will change for the better and assume they may change for the worst

jimmyjammy001 · 21/04/2022 17:12

If getting married is that important to some, don't have children with your partner until you are married, if it dosent happen then leave.
If you are further on in life and allready have children and then want to marry and one person has accumulated alot more wealth and assets than the other then marriage could be very costly for the one who has all the wealth in the event of a divorce, in which case I who say definitely don't get married as it makes things very financially complicated

Rewis · 21/04/2022 17:15

I agree that people should be aware kn what type of contract marriage is (rights and responsibilities) so everyone can make an informed decisions. It is equally important important know when marriage is not a good option as it is to know when it is.

AlexaShutUp · 21/04/2022 17:16

I absolutely agree that it isn't just a piece of paper, it is a legally binding contract. In my case, I think I went into it a bit blind, and didn't really consider the legal and financial implications as carefully as I should have done. As the higher earner in our relationship by quite a long way, I would stand to lose out a lot if we were to split, and I hadn't properly considered whether I was willing to accept that risk. Thankfully, I intend to stay married to DH in any case, but in hindsight, it wasn't something that I had fully thought through.

I think both men and women should certainly be aware of both the risks and the protections associated with marriage before they get themselves entangled - by marriage, mortgages, kids or any combination of the three!

notanothertakeaway · 21/04/2022 17:18

I’m firmly in the cohabiting camp, don’t want or need to get married and DP and I have things in place in case of problems; joint ownership of assets and wills

And that's fine, if it's an informed choice. OP isn't saying that everyone should get married. But they're right that too many people don't understand the implications of being married (or not)

Blossomtoes · 21/04/2022 17:20

Bedsheets4knickers · 21/04/2022 16:59

@SemperIdem

It irritates me too. It is not just a “piece of paper” - it is a legal contract that offers protections and benefits merely cohabiting does not.

We are not married but our life insurance policy's are to benefit each other . If the unthinkable happened we have each other covered with or without a marriage contract .

Let’s hope you have too few assets to be bothered with inheritance tax.

desiringonlychild2022 · 21/04/2022 17:28

I agree. I feel like in a way, even though it made my early 20s quite difficult, being an international couple meant we both agreed that legal marriage was important.

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